stretching tips?

[bball_1523]

I seem to have a hard time playing stretches between each finger. For example, in the g major scale, I have a hard time playing 3-5-7 on the low e and a strings. There's an awkward movement between my index and middle finger, and I feel like my fingers are jumping to the next note rather than smoothly moving. It feels even worse as I move up the fretboard.

I've been playing for 4 years and feel ashamed that I cannot play smoothly with these stretches. Is there a certain technique that I can do each day to improve my stretches?

[phantom]

that sounds strange..
can you easily stretch those fingers without the guitar?
maybe it has something to do with how your hand is angled to the fretboard?
You say the fingers are "jumping".. is that totally uncontrolled?
If yes, figure out the exact point where the "jump" begins and concentrate on what is hapenning in your fingers/hand/muscles at that moment. If you can nail the definate moment down, find a way to hold your hand differently to avoid those jumps..

Could you post a pic of your fingers doing that stretch on the fretboard?

[ashc]

Finger independence?? Unlikely though as fingers 1 and 2 don't normally have problems. I find, e.g. doing chromatics, that 2 and 3 are a bit "stuck together" and it's not so smooth, and also 3 to 4 is "weak", but 1 and 2 (index to middle) are the best pairing.

I always play these 3-5-7 stretches with fingers 1,2 and 4 but some folks (e.g Paul Gilbert) use 1,3 and 4 for these (he says that he was trying to follow the finger per fret rule at first and got used to it). I used to do it that way but found the other way was better for me. Anyway might be worth trying both fingerings??

Is it Ok if you move it up, say 8-10-12 on C major?

Final (obvious) thought for these fingerings on the E and A strings the thumb should be behind the neck in "classical position".

[phantom]

Final (obvious) thought for these fingerings on the E and A strings the thumb should be behind the neck in "classical position".

Oh yeah.. i forgot about that one.
Could be very obvious. :D

I think it's a hand position thing overall since, like you mentioned, there are rarely problems between the index- and middlefinger.

We'll see. :)

[Wicked_Dreams]

Here's a recent topic with some advice...

http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9847

[bball_1523]

I'll post a picture of how I'm playing the stretches later.

I do use the classical position, with my thumb behind the fretboard and not over it. I do have small fingers, but I wonder how Michael Romeo of Symphony X does it, and he has smaller and fatter fingers than I do.

I think it's a tad bit easier to perform the stretch at 8-10-12 and up to 10-12-14, but then it gets REALLY tough as I can't angle my hand enough to hit the upper frets of on the lower strings. I think it's also hard to hit the notes correctly doing stretches on any of the upper frets past the 15th fret.

I think I have this problem with all my finger pairings, between 1-2, 2-3-, and 3-4.

[AndyP]

I have to agree that it's probably the angle of your hand to the fretboard. Body mechanics counts for a lot in life.

[bball_1523]

Here are two pictures showing how I have been stretching the g major scale.


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y277/bball_1523/stretchinggmajor.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y277/bball_1523/stretchinggmajorcloseup.jpg

Like I said above, I feel like I am jumping between my first and 2nd fingers, and the g and a notes in the beginning of the g major.

[Bizarro]

Everybody's hands are different... Experimentation is key. Your fingers seem long enough to easily make the stretch.

FYI: Above the 12th fret I don't use my pinky on the lower strings at all for lead work. It's not comfortable for me w/ my guitar strung low. :)

[bball_1523]

I don't know about you, but my fingers seem small to me. I feel like I jump around during stretches and that results in notes being played off rhythm. It feels uncomfortable too because I just can't get the notes to play in an even fashion cleanly.

[delicious]

Try shifting the guitar a little bit to the right when you play in that position. Thats what i do when i play in the lower positions, i have even smaller hands than you;D

[phantom]

Hey!

good to see the pics..
from what i see there, i might say that your wrist is angled way too much!!
it is hard to move the fingers correct and easily with a 90° wrist angle.
try to get an approx. 45° angle, and i'm sure the "jumping-feeling" will disappear.

Also i second what Bizarro says.
Playing at higher positions i don't use my pinky on the lower strings as well because of two reasons:
1. there is not enough space to squeeze in all 4 fingers for the "1-finger-per-fret" thing.
2. the angle of the hand would be uncomfortable if i'd try to reach up with the pinky.
Other than that, i would rather play a C for example at A-String 15 fret instead of Low E-String 20 fret.

[forgottenking2]

I second what Phantom said about the angle. You might also be straining your tendons to get those fingers moving in such an ackward position; that could give you some trouble in the future (guyton's tunnel or other RSI).

About using the pinkie on the lower strings... it's interesting, I do while practicing but when improvising I stay clear of the lower strings above the 12th fret.

[bball_1523]

do you have pictures having the wrist at a 45 degree angle? I am confused on what you mean by angle.

[phantom]

I'll see if i can post some hands this evening.
;)

[EricV]

As weird as this may sound... when I play -3-5-7- on the low E-String, I fret those with my index, ring and pinkie.
I just checked ( cuz I hardly ever think about it when I play ), and that´s how I fret those, and it feels more comfortable than fretting the A with my middle finger.
Have you tried that ? It might feel awkward at first, but once you get the ring finger going, it might help a lot for stuff like this.
Just a thought...
Eric

[phantom]

One pic from the side.

That's what i mean with "more like 45° angle".
If you angle too much - like 90°- your hand gets tensed and has a hard time to move freely..

[phantom]

and here from the top..

place your thumb approx. in oposition to the middle finger.

[mattblack850]

I'm with Eric here, I use my Index, Ring and Pinky for this.

[ashc]

Well you're in good company, as I mentioned earlier Paul Gilbert seems to favour that too...

[phantom]

Whatever works. :D

I just think that it's easier to stretch between fingers 1 and 2 than between 3 and 4.
Maybe for guys with long fingers that doesn't matter. :eek:

[UKRuss]

I'm with Sven, I go index, middle pinky...and I have stubby little fingers...prolly why.

[ashc]

Oh yes, I'm 1-2-4 as well. I tried it the other way at first (not for any reason) and it didn't work for me. I reckon Eric caught that habit watching Intense Rock many years ago :D

[bball_1523]

and here from the top..

place your thumb approx. in oposition to the middle finger.

that is how I've been doing it, but I still feel a slight jumping motion between fingers 1 and 2. How long did it take for you to get used to a smooth motion for these stretches?

as for using fingers 1 3 4, I've had even more trouble stretching between 3 and 4 then 1 and 2.

[phantom]

Oh.. i don't know.. i never had that jumpin' feeling.
But i guess it takes weeks/month.
Do it veeery slow so that you can feel what your muscles&knuckles do then find a way to eliminate the juming.
Maybe go and see a doc - might be some strange thing with your hand.. but i don't think so.

[bball_1523]

I think it just might be lack of practice, something I really need to work on

[ashc]

I found 3NPS hard going myself (still do in fact). But for what it's worth I find sequence type patterns, rather than up and down the scale only, help a lot to get those finger pairings moving. The attached is a basic sequence that you could try if you are not doing this type of stuff already. Sounds OK too.

Can't remember where I first learnt it, but it's fairly standard..

[bball_1523]

I am gonna work on sequences, but I'd like to get the basic scales down first, meaning all 3 nps positions for each key.

[EricV]

I reckon Eric caught that habit watching Intense Rock many years ago :D

Indeed :)
Someone mentioned Gilbert, and he mentioned at some workshop that he has no solid "rule" for what fingering he uses for stuff like that. It depends what he plays before and afterwards.
I always felt it to be a more relaxed method to use fingers 1-3-4 for stuff like a -3-5-7- type figure... I have pretty big hands, so that may be the reason.
Eric

[EricV]

I am gonna work on sequences, but I'd like to get the basic scales down first, meaning all 3 nps positions for each key.

Actually,applying sequences can help to learn and memorize those patterns quite a bit. When I tell a student about the 3NPS patterns, I recommend the following:

- Work on each pattern at a time, and actually spend some time memorizin, understanding and applying each one before you move on
- Other than just playing through them up and down, apply all kinds of sequences and approaches ( incl. Doublestops etc. ). I always felt that that way, you have to memorize the pattern way better as you have to constantly think "forth and back" within the pattern when you apply a sequence.

I attached a ptb of simple sequences I usually show to my students, for them to use them for memorizing and exploring new patterns, in this case a 3NPS one.
I am sure most of you have seen those exercises many times before, and all of them have been used in some of my articles, but I figured I´d put them into this thread once more.
So again, ( and keep in mind this is just my own opinion ): I wouldn´t wait with the sequences, as they might help quite a bit to memorize the patterns
Eric

[curiousgeorge]

Actually,applying sequences can help to learn and memorize those patterns quite a bit. When I tell a student about the 3NPS patterns, I recommend the following:

- Work on each pattern at a time, and actually spend some time memorizin, understanding and applying each one before you move on
- Other than just playing through them up and down, apply all kinds of sequences and approaches ( incl. Doublestops etc. ). I always felt that that way, you have to memorize the pattern way better as you have to constantly think "forth and back" within the pattern when you apply a sequence.

I attached a ptb of simple sequences I usually show to my students, for them to use them for memorizing and exploring new patterns, in this case a 3NPS one.
I am sure most of you have seen those exercises many times before, and all of them have been used in some of my articles, but I figured I´d put them into this thread once more.
So again, ( and keep in mind this is just my own opinion ): I wouldn´t wait with the sequences, as they might help quite a bit to memorize the patterns
Eric

Hey yeah, that's the same thing the guy I took a lesson from last week said...sequences are awesome for your chops...he took lessons from Gilbert and Morse at GIT as well...BTW Eric did you check your messages?

[EricV]

Hey yeah, that's the same thing the guy I took a lesson from last week said...sequences are awesome for your chops...he took lessons from Gilbert and Morse at GIT as well...BTW Eric did you check your messages?

If you mean private messages here at the forum, I have those switched off, so I can´t receive any.
Regarding email... I just checked and noticed that I replied to your email using the reply-function of my standard mailer, which doesn´t work since I got your mail through the ibreathe site.
I´ll resend my reply right away, sorry !
Eric

Edit: You have your email function switched off, so I can´t =(

[bball_1523]

thanks for the patterns eric, I'll check them out.

how long do you guys usually spend on scales/sequences? I find that I get really bored too easily and just want to rock out to random riffs. I've read an article about taking breaks and stuff, but for some reason I'm a mess at this kind of stuff.

[curiousgeorge]

If you mean private messages here at the forum, I have those switched off, so I can´t receive any.
Regarding email... I just checked and noticed that I replied to your email using the reply-function of my standard mailer, which doesn´t work since I got your mail through the ibreathe site.
I´ll resend my reply right away, sorry !
Eric

Edit: You have your email function switched off, so I can´t =(

Hey Eric, sorry man! I turned it on, so you can resend it if you want...thanks in advance!

[phantom]

I find that I get really bored too easily and just want to rock out to random riffs. I've read an article about taking breaks and stuff, but for some reason I'm a mess at this kind of stuff.

if you learn how to practice with discipline you'll gain so much more out of it!
There will be time to rock out later.. and then even better!! ;)