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David Lucas Burge's Perfect and Relative Pitch courses
Hi. I'm kinda new here in this forum thing, just registered some few minutes ago, and I thought I wanna start a forum on this subject.
I got this Perfect Pitch course from a guy named David Lucas Burge and I started doing the exercises a few days ago. I'm now doing the exercises in the Masterclass 7. So far, I'm doing quite fine with the last drills and I pass the "verification rounds", but now I think I need help with this exercise where you name white tones on the keyboard without looking. I think one should have a good relative pitch with this one too.
I just wanna know if there are some other guys here that tried and benefited with this course, maybe they can help me out and give some tips on how I can go about with the course. Also, are there some people here who have the complete Relative Pitch lessons by Mr. Burge? Where do I download them free? I'm broke and I can't buy it for now.
well I can't comment on downloading them, although your local library may have some ear training courses that you could borrow, maybe even his.
I can assure you that your questions have been answered about 10 times in previous threads. This topic comes up again every couple of months.
Hi there, silent-storm. Thanks for replying to my message. I never knew this forum, threading thing can be so, like close as having someone answer your questions in person.
Yeah, I've been reading some threads about this topic lately and I found some messages quite helpful. But I also wanted someone to help me out with my situation, someone who has been there too. I'm sure somebody will read this message and will write about his experience.
By the way, what's your instrument, silent-storm? Have you done some sort of ear-training before?
I play guitar and piano and I have done three years of college ear training as well as a lot of stuff on my own.
the reason why I said to read other posts is because I have answered your question on a number of occasions. I worked through his perfect pitch course. It worked, but you should really try to find a friend to test you. If not you can start to rely on muscle memory in order to name the notes, which is not good. With a friend it will make it far more challenging and benefitial. Also don't be affraid to develop your own excersizes. I worked through about half of it, decided the rest wasn't going in the direction I wanted, so I came up with my own stuff that worked a lot better for my particular needs.
I can't give you any specific info on specific lessons because there is nothing you can do besides listen to it 10000 times before your ear slowly starts to figure it out for itself.
Last edited by silent-storm; 07-26-2006 at 05:22 PM.
If you scroll down this page to similar threads, you'll find... exactly that. Maybe you'll find something interesting
So, you have perfect pitch now, silent-storm? How long did it take? Did you have a hard time doing the exercises? Perhaps you could tell me your experiences with it. When did all the "colors" started to become clear to you?
Right now, I'm on Masterclass 7 and just yesterday I was able to do 1 verification round on the drill. While doing the course, I'm also trying to strengthen my relative pitch since I found out a certain degree of it is needed to have p.pitch. Also yesterday, my girlfriend tested me on the keyboard, I got some wrong notes but mostly I got correct answers. I think my ear is beginning to open up a lot more than before. The unlocking technique helped me tremendously, and now I can do it with speed. I'm excited!
I just want to say that right now, I'm on Masterclass 8 and just a while ago I was able to do 1 verification round for each of the two drills. I'm working on the last two drills in this session. My ear is opening up more and more. I would also like to add that I'm beginning to sort of hear and recognize some tones. I mean, if I play a on the piano without looking, I can tell the pitch. There's a certain feel to a pitch, at least to me, I don't know to some of you guys. I'm not talking about the pitch's highness or lowness, but something more. Sometimes I would get it quickly but most of the times I need to listen closely to get it. I'm not correct all the time, I could get wrong of course.
David Burge's Perfect Pitch Course
Burge wrote a small booklet back in the 1980's, which cost $10.00 at the time. I read through it. I tried the exercises he has in the back. He starts with you playing F# and wants you to hear the "twangy" color of the sound. Then he introduces Eb as being "soft" or "mellow" when compared to F#'s twangyness. I use my piano at home. It is psycological mind play. I really don't hear those qualities. I certainly don't hear or feel visual colors either as he suggests. I know that color is on a higher plane of frequencies. The visual spectrum is much higher that the highest hertz that humans can hear. He next introduces A but offers no color like "reedy" or "clean" or "pure" tymber. Next he introduces C but like A he offers no quality to listen for. Then he introduces C#. It sounds like a bunch of trash talk to me. I think he is talking out of his rear end and trying to make money off people who honestly would like to improve their ability to recognize musical sound better.
Last edited by Flextones; 11-30-2007 at 08:37 PM.
Reason: I misspelled a few words and didn't capitalize the letter I
I heard the F#'s "twangyness" and the Eb's "mellowness" right from the very beginning, but then I really wanted to believe that they were there. And so they were. Perhaps it was the same with you, only the other way around. Or perhaps you are tone deaf. I cannot say for sure, though you certainly seem not to honestly want to improve your ability to recognize musical sound; if you would, you'd read a few of the previous posts in this thread to see that quite a few people have benefited a lot from Burge's trash talk.
Originally Posted by Flextones
You might have something there. This morning I revisited the booklet. The booklet cost $12.00 and was copyrighten in 1983. I never gave it a real chance. I have good relative pitch, because I graduated from Indiana University with a Master's Degree in Music Education and I graduated from the United States Military Music School with honors. I wanted to believe that the pitches of F# and Eb had those vibrant-twangy and soft-mellow qualities that I could somehow highten my senses to perceive. I was rewarded temporarily but had to go back to the mundane tasks of trying to teach peoples children and play for church choirs. I was always under pressure to make a living, however now that I am retired from the rat race of dealing with trying to teach peoples and children and survive a day in a very tough and violent inner city school system. The days turned into weeks, months, and then 20 years. Finally I got the H out of there. I am going to patiently work on the Color Hearing Technique Exercises. He has listed 18 exercises and devoted a chapter to Ear Teasers for Super Ears. I have a friend who is an older lady who can read and play hymns on the piano. I am going to ask her to be my partner in doing the exercises. I am 57 and she must be in her 60's or 70's. I know that I have developed my skills over the years and am a much better musician today than I was when I was a student and an Army Bandsman. I practiced and developed my ability to transcribe directly to the keyboard after hearing a tune one time. I can do this now. I thought that only a genius could do that, but practice under pressure from a demanding choir director who is not a musician made me develop real-time transposition on the first pass. Absolute pitch has always escaped me. It is a gift that I have known others to posess (including one of my former piano students). I covet that skill badly. I am going to be patient and work through this. I will give it a year. I know that genius skills can be developed. Conditioning can change a person. The "old timers" in the jazz clubs used to tell me, "some cats got it and some cats ain't". That is trash talk. I got to be a good jazz musician over the years by practicing the right things to develop my soloing and chording.
Hi.... I'm new
I've started both PP and RP Burge's Courses about two months ago.
I was looking for a good music forum and I found it
So... Im in MC 8 but I'm still doing MC 6 & 7 to sharpen my hearing even more.
Like most of you here, I'm also uncertain about whether I'll achieve PP at the end of the course or not, but one thing is certain - the course (PP supercourse) DOES improve your hearing because it's the so called "traditional method" (or whatever) to open up the ear.
So I think it's worth 150$.
to another issue, I'm pretty stuck in MC 8.
The main drill is to play major and minor 3rd using just the white keys and identify them. When i'm tring to do so I feel like i'm identifying only the first note and lets say it's G, I know right away that major 3rd above G is B and im not using PP or RP at all, actually im not using hearing at all....... what should I do??
Originally Posted by GuitarMaster
In this MC, knowing the bottom tone will automatically give you the top one, but there's not much to do about that is there? You can't not know that it's a third when the task is playing thirds. The first 12 master classes are, as he calls them, the preparatory phase, and therefore only meant to prepare the ear, and to get familiar with the tones and listening to them.
If you know it's a third because you feel your fingers apart in a certain way, or you know it's not a C# because the tone you're playing is not a black key, never worry about those things. The most important thing is to just listen as much as possible. Listen, listen, listen. Most people without PP will have to hear the Bb a few thousand times before they can recognize it, so it doesn't really matter.
From what I have experienced, the only thing one really needs in order to develop Absolute Pitch, is to play tones over and over, comparing them with one another, try to remember the pitch texture or colour, to sing them, try to hear the colours in other instruments, play the tones over and over some more, compare them with each other some more, try to remember the colour, play them a couple thousand times more, then a few thousand times on other instruments, compare a little more, and then some more, and so on.
But that is frightfully boring. And that's where David L. Burge's course comes in. It makes it a million times easier and more fun (though it still is not easy) to do what is needed.
So just keep at it. If you want PP badly enough, you won't stop at anything, and let time help you. I've been doing PP ear training 20-60 minutes each day for about 6 months now, and though I have improved A LOT, I've still only had a small taste of what fully developed PP is, and still have a long way to go.
Hope this doesn't demoralize too much, and good luck
Perfect Pitch Super Course frustration
I am Sean Creighton and live in Florida.
I bought the Perfect pitch Super Course somewhere around two years ago and have been doing the drills daily since and have not developed perfect pitch.
I am currently on the lesson of reaching out and touching any white note on the piano and naming that note. I get anywhere from 1-11 in a row right before a wrong guess. I have listened to the CDs and have done everything stated in the Perfect Pitch Supercourse.
History: am songwriter and perform at homeless shelters in S. Florida and give away my CDs. I have an awesome job, beautiful wife who’s my best friend; have two kids who I have fun with. I kayak, fish, mountain climb, etc.
I’m working on my 7th CD. I've given away about 4 thousand CD with around 12 original songs each on them in the last 6 years. I sing and play allthe instrument on my CDs. People like them. I've written maybe 100 songs. Will send anyone free CD or email you my MP3 songs if you like, no problem.
I started the perfect pitch course on piano because I was learning to stay in pitch singing also. My primary instrument is guitar.
I started the Perfect Pitch Super course on piano 2 years ago and within around 9 months I was reaching out to any white key on the piano and naming the note around 80% of the time but was at that level for two months.
I got frustrated and called the perfectpitch.com site and the person recommended that I stop perfect pitch and do the complete relative pitch course first. So I started the relative pitch course but it was very, very, slow for me. I got stuck for weeks on different drills and then I realized I could no longer go to the piano, press any three keys and unlock them. I could tell during my melody writing that I was losing my hearing that I had gained. So I called the perfectpitch.com site back and the person said to stop relative pitch and to try perfect pitch on my guitar which is my primary instrument which I did.
One of the problems with the piano is that I travel a lot sometimes for three weeks and I would come back and would have regressed. I actually took that travel piano with me on 3-4 trips (dedicated or manic?). I have a nice travel guitar so I was able to take that with me on all travels.
Perfect pitch drills on the guitar were difficult when trying to recognize different pitches in different octave, it's less visual than piano where I can quickly check myself on the octave below middle C. The piano is more visual and I am quite familiar with it.
I then said to myself after minimal progress this is ridiculous and began perfect pitch drills back at the piano.
So....I am frustrated....I have done the drills/instructions in the Perfect Pitch Supercourse for 20 minutes a day for two years minus a very small bit of time and do not have perfect pitch....
I am frustrated but am a perfectionist and hate giving up.....so thought I would email you all prior to throwing in the towel...
One of the reasons I wanted perfect pitch was to improve my singing and most of all be able to hear if I am out of pitch a little when I record one of my songs.
I put in the time, stayed focused, did all the perfect pitch drills, ...I just don't get the failure.....
Originally Posted by sean creighton
So you can get 11 white tones before making a mistake. How many could you get at the start before taking the course? Probably none. So you have made progress. There is no "failure".
If you read my post you can see that it sometimes takes months to complete a master class. But eventually it comes.
don't get me wrong... two years ago when I started the perfect pitch course and singing lessons at the same time my teacher almost dropped me as a student because I couldn't hear the diffence in pitches......and after a year I almost never sing out of pitch now (mabe on certain low or high notes I don't quite get there sometimes).........I give away ton's of CDs so people like my guitar, song writing, and singing...
It's just disappointing when it is clearly stated in the course do all the excercises and you will develop perfect pitch and it will never go away.....like a done deal.......
Anyway...another difficulty on certain drills is no partner....my kids quiz me but not very willingly......
My ear has opened up a LOT.....but I don't have perfect pitch yet.....
It was very interesting reading on the research that Chris did who developed the Absolute Pitch Blaster......he states that there has never been a recorded case of a person developing perfect pitch who was not born with it.....
anyways......I love music, like playing guitar, like singing, have a great job and life so I think I will just continue on ear training but to a much lesser extent and focus....I put my songwriting on the back burner and that is the original reason I began the perfect pitch course (to hear when I was out of pitch singing)........
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