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Thread: where the crap are my tab sites

  1. #1
    Registered User 12bar's Avatar
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    where the crap are my tab sites

    i always went thru guitartabs.cc for my tabs but now its out of commision. what good tab sites are still up and running. and further more i don't get how they can legally stop the sharing of personal interperetations of music. i could see if the tab was line for line, word for word exact reperductions of copywrited material. look at it this way, lets say that i describe trees for a living. i someone else accuately decribes the same tree that i had previously described, i have no room to get pissed.

    is anyone else pissed about this.

  2. #2
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    From MPA.org--- (capitalization and asterisks added by me)

    Many of those who wrote to us seem to be under the impression that the guitar tabs (or lead sheets or other similar works) posted by individual players are the personal interpretations of the songs by the person who made them and therefore are not subject to copyright. Nothing can be further from the truth. The U.S. Copyright Law specifically provides that the right to make and distribute an ****ADAPTATION, ABRIDGEMENT, OR TRANSCRIPTION**** of a copyrighted work such as a song belongs to the copyright owner of that work. Virtually all of the songs on the tab and other music web sites are protected by copyright. Thus, any player, whether an amateur or a top professional, needs the permission of the copyright owner of a song to make an arrangement or a tab version of that song and to post it on the Internet. Otherwise, the arranger and the web site are infringing that copyright.

    Originally I was pissed off but I've had a change of heart and understand where they are coming from.

  3. #3
    Registered User 12bar's Avatar
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    don't get me wrong, i fully understand the copywrite regulations. i just disagree with them. if i'm on stage and playing a cover song, everyone there can see how i'm playing it. if i put that performance on the net its fine. there isn't much sepparation there. the simple fact is that without tabs i would have never learned to play. the most important aspect of my life, and my means of making a living would be abscent. i had no one to teach me to play, tabs were all i had. what it comes down to is greed on the part of publishers. tabs allow those who otherwise wouldn't have access to the musical foundation that every musician requires to learn to play. what next, telling music teacher they can't teach songs they didn't write? plus half the time the tabs aren't even right.

  4. #4
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    Well I don't claim to understand or know how the copyright laws work.

    But anyway..... the Powertabs.net site is still active but you have to register before you can download anything.

  5. #5
    Registered User 12bar's Avatar
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    do you know why it is that some site are still permitted to give access to tabs

  6. #6
    Wordgirl: Jaded Musician jade_bodhi's Avatar
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    The Times They Are A-Changing

    Quote Originally Posted by flathead
    Virtually all of the songs on the tab and other music web sites are protected by copyright. Thus, any player, whether an amateur or a top professional, needs the permission of the copyright owner of a song to make an arrangement or a tab version of that song and to post it on the Internet. Otherwise, the arranger and the web site are infringing that copyright.
    Are we talking about copyright laws of the United States? Great Britain? Western Europe? Or are you assuming there is some global or international law that will regulate communication? I don't think the internet, as a worldwide communicative tool, is quite regulated by U.S. laws. My view is that communication on the internet is more akin to verbal speech than it is to the conventional printed word. No one can govern or limit the words one speaks to another person, even if those words are an exact reiteration of the ideas of another person. On the other hand, the printed word in the past was very controlable because it was expensive to produce print on paper. Not so any more. Internet communication is nearly as easy as phone conversation. The internet cannot (yet) be governed by international laws to limit what one communicates to another, or millions of others for that matter.

    In time, the internet will prove to be more like the telephone system. Laws will be instituted in various places to allow providers to charge users of the internet, but no global law will ever be able to regulate effectively how people use the internet to communicate.

    As my view relates to those in this forum, IBM, it is unfortunate for artists, but I don't regret that, even though I am an artist. The role of the artist in society will change to accommodate the way people communicate and the ways they come to know the work of an artist. It's already changing in the way musical artists have begun to turn away from record companies and create their own methods of disseminating their work. Record companies and media companies may never disappear, but they will discover the market no longer needs them.

    Jade Bodhi
    Last edited by jade_bodhi; 11-05-2006 at 02:31 AM.
    Nobody ever shared
    what we have known...

  7. #7
    Registered User SkinnyDevil's Avatar
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    Interesting angle, Jade.

    Yeah, I for one do know about copyright (in truth, far more than I ever wanted to know). For the record, while each country has it's own laws, there are international treaties most of them have signed which dictate much.

    I prefer Thomas Jefferson's original view on the matter.

    As an aside, downloading music, contrary to what you may hear repeatedly (ad nauseum), is NOT illegal. No one has even been sued for it. The press has forgotten how to investigate or even mildly sift thru the BS. They just lazily print press releases.

    The MPA is full of ****.
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    "...embrace your fear..."

  8. #8
    Wordgirl: Jaded Musician jade_bodhi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkinnyDevil
    As an aside, downloading music, contrary to what you may hear repeatedly (ad nauseum), is NOT illegal. No one has even been sued for it.
    I thought I read in Rolling Stone that some poor college kids got sued by some big organization and were punished in U.S. court.
    Nobody ever shared
    what we have known...

  9. #9
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    www.e-tabs.org seems ok.

    intellectual property rights, i guess but, hell, how many cover bands, etc. just want to play some music they enjoy?

    how many freekin records been sold by the mere fact people heard a song in a bar and asked what was that song and bought a copy? it is free advertising and promotion!

    as to someone making money on someone elses work, i don't mean a couple bucks for a gig, but like g.benson recording "on broadway," the writer should definately be compensated.

    didn't don henly try to sue the U.S. for copyright infringment for using the eagle?

    metallica is another greedy band.

  10. #10
    Registered User SkinnyDevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jade_bodhi
    I thought I read in Rolling Stone that some poor college kids got sued by some big organization and were punished in U.S. court.
    Yes, this is true. But why were they sued?

    If Rolling Stone said "for illegal downloading" then Rolling Stone is part of the problem, and are de facto mouth-pieces for the RIAA (intentional or not) because they just re-print RIAA press releases, which lie.

    No one has ben sued for downloading. Not one.

    They were sued for "distribution". The RIAA doesn;t even want to go to court over that - hence their current (very effective) strategy of suing high and settling low. Rack up victories and convince the world your position is valid, all the while lying thru your teeth.

    If they are doing Right Deeds and stand on Right Ground, then they need to step up to the plate with confidence that the Truth will out. That they do not, and will not, speaks volumes.

    And we continue to believe them, even when we dispute their actions.
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    David M. McLean
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    "...embrace your fear..."

  11. #11
    Wordgirl: Jaded Musician jade_bodhi's Avatar
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    clarification

    Quote Originally Posted by SkinnyDevil
    No one has ben sued for downloading. Not one.

    They were sued for "distribution".

    Subtle distinction. I see what you're getting at. But here's a thought: aren't most of the downloading techniques actually part of file sharing systems that make a person's music available to others through the site (napster or whatever)? And if so, isn't that distribution? Or tantamount to it?

    Jade
    Nobody ever shared
    what we have known...

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by hafftaplay

    metallica is another greedy band.
    why bring this up? Comments of this variety aren't welcome here because they spawn threads that Ibreathemusic try to aviod.

  13. #13
    Ibreathe Music Advisor EricV's Avatar
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    I have mentioned this before, but here goes nothing: one of the problems, and prolly one of the angles that helped the lawyers get started was that, apart from the "Are TABs created by fans copyright infringement or stealing" discussion, people at the TAB sites started to get careless. I remember a rule at the PTA that said "Dont post copyrighted TABs". And people didnt listen, put up ptbs which were exact copies of official TABs from TAB books, and the uploader even SAID "from TAB book".
    So that was yet another aspect that was due to cause trouble. Illegal copies from books, pretty much comparable to sharing other copyrighted work for free.

    To be quite honest, I donīt mind that iots a bit tougher to get TABs. Yes, I always liked the idea that, say, a student could easily get transcriptions for songs and work on learning those. At the same time, a lot of people started to completely rely on that. And hardly EVER figured out anything by themselves.
    Now, you might feel tempted you go "Just because there was no internet and no Powertab around when you started playing, no reason to be bitter. Times have changed, so accept that beginners these days have that resource"
    Well, I notice that a lot of kids donīt even THINK of trying to figure out something by ear. And that IMO is skipping an integral step of your development as a musician. When I show some student some lick and he goes "Where did you find that TAB", and I say "I picked out the riff by ear", he or she looks as if I told them about some kind of a third encounter with an alien.
    Sure, why should anyone sit down and try to learn stuff by ear when all the TABs are around`? I understand why a lot of them donīt, but its sad to see that a lot of them are not willing to work on their ears.
    Sure, it might be tough at first, but its such a great learning experience, will improve your ear (which eventually will also help when you play music and communicate musically with others) etc.
    I almost feel like some old guy going "You kids dont know what it was like back in..." but I am serious about this, anyway... figuring out stuff by ear will help improve your ear, and that is never a bad thing for musicians.
    Just my opinion though
    Eric

  14. #14
    Ibreathe Music Advisor EricV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hafftaplay
    how many freekin records been sold by the mere fact people heard a song in a bar and asked what was that song and bought a copy? it is free advertising and promotion!

    Right, but try to see it from the opposite angle. A coverband often is hired BECAUSE they play covers, not their own material. Letīs hypothetically take the Atomic Punks, a Van Halen tribute band, as an example
    Yes, they do play Van Halen songs, and that might cause listeners to go "Man, I just noticed how much I like that song". At the same time, people come there cuz they know theyīre gonna hear a band play songs by Van Halen (and play them good). And the band does profit from it financially.

    A cover band can play they songs they enjoy, no problem. But if they charge people for listening, I think itīs fair that the composer gets some of that eventually. And even though some cover bands play covers cuz they like it, a lot of them do so because itīs a bit easier to get an audience, usually.
    However, just my opinion, and itīs a much debated topic anyway
    Eric

  15. #15
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    What really makes me mad is that if you look at all the music that's been recorded over the last few decades, only a tiny percentage of it is available in currently published tab books. People need the internet and tab sites to learn the other 99% of it. So the vast, vast majority of the stuff being downloaded isn't even available via tab books and therefore it's not costing them anything because they're not in competition with it.

    Also, people who learn to play guitar via tabs are extremely likely to buy lots of CD's throughout their lives. This is a great demographic for the record companies to exploit, but instead they sue them. Absolutely brilliant. I just can't figure out why they're going broke.

    Rant over

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