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Thread: Question about phrygian and other modes

  1. #1
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    Question about phrygian and other modes

    I've been reading a lot about modes and it seems everything I read is telling me something completely different. Like I look at a guitar scale diagram and it shows a different note series than the website is telling me.

    For instance for E Phrygian a website said to flatten the 2, 3, 6, and 7th, but on the scale diagram website only the 2nd was flattened and the other ones were pretty much all different too.

    Can anyone give me a good quick explanation of modes? I understand everything I've read, it's just I'm hearing different information so I don't know what is true, but I have no problem learning it as long as its the right way. Thanks.

  2. #2
    Registered User Malcolm's Avatar
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    There are two basic ways to play modes. One way uses relative modes. Relative modes are where you walk the key and the notes stay the same, for example:
    C Ionian = C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C
    D Dorin..= ....D, E, F, G, A, B, C, D
    E Phrygian = ....E, F, G, A, B, C, D, E
    etc. etc. This is the easy way to play modes just use your major scale pattern and start on the next note. I've never understood why a person would want to do that though. I always have to tick off on my fingers what note to start on. Easy way to make them complicated way to use them. IMHO

    The other way is called parallel modes or pitch axis. Now here the key stays the same and the notes change. This to me is the simple way of doing it. I think of it this way. You have 3 major modes, 3 minor modes and 1 diminished mode. It's minor diminished, however it being minor is just taken for granted. The major modes are Ionian, Lydian and Mixolydian. The minor modes are Aeolian, Dorian and Phrygian. The diminished mode is Locrian. The major modes work from the major scale and have these intervals 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 as home base. The minor modes work from the natural minor scale and their home base is based upon these intervals 1, 2, b3, 4, 5, b6, b7

    Lydian takes the major scale and sharps the 4th.
    Mixolydian takes the major scale and flats the 7th.

    Dorian takes the natural minor scale and makes the 6th natural.
    Phrygian takes the natural minor scale and flats the 2nd.

    Locrian is the diminished mode and it takes the natural minor scale and flats the 2nd and 5th.

    So here is what you end up with:

    C Ionian 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, ............C, D, E, F, G, A, B
    C Lydian 1, 2, 3, #4, 5, 6, 7 ...........C, D, E, F#, G, A, B
    C Mixolydian 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, b7.......C, D, E, F, G, A, Bb

    C Aeolian 1, 2, b3, 4, 5, b6, b7 ...... C. D Eb, F, G, Ab, Bb
    C Dorian 1, 2, b3, 4, 5, 6, b7 ........ C, D, Eb, F, G, A, Bb
    C Phrygian 1, b2, b3, 4, 5, b6, b7 ... C Db, Eb, F, G, Ab, Bb

    C Locrian 1, b2, b3, 4, b5, b6, b7 ....C, Db, Eb, F, Gb, Ab, Bb

    So, it depends on what type of mode the person is talking about, relative or paralell.

    Go here and play what if games with this scale/mode generator. For example:
    http://www.looknohands.com/chordhous.../index_rb.html
    E Phrygian
    intervals: 1,b2,b3,4,5,b6,b7
    half-steps: 1-2-2-2-1-2-2
    notes: E,F,G,A,B,C,D
    The E major scale is E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D# OK to turn that into the E Phrygian mode flat the 2nd, 3rd, 6th and 7th and you get E, F, G, A, B, C, D. I hope the light switch was just turned on.......

    C Phrygian
    intervals: 1,b2,b3,4,5,b6,b7
    half-steps: 1-2-2-2-1-2-2
    notes: C,Db,Eb,F,G,Ab,Bb

    IMHO modes are something really rather simple that we delight in making complicated. Now all of the above is just how to make modes, we have yet to get into how to use them.

    Ask specific questions.
    Last edited by Malcolm; 08-21-2009 at 04:17 AM.

  3. #3
    Registered User JonR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mardanlin
    I've been reading a lot about modes and it seems everything I read is telling me something completely different. Like I look at a guitar scale diagram and it shows a different note series than the website is telling me.

    For instance for E Phrygian a website said to flatten the 2, 3, 6, and 7th, but on the scale diagram website only the 2nd was flattened and the other ones were pretty much all different too.

    Can anyone give me a good quick explanation of modes? I understand everything I've read, it's just I'm hearing different information so I don't know what is true, but I have no problem learning it as long as its the right way. Thanks.
    Malcolm's pretty much summed it up.
    In your instance of E phrygian, the website that said to flatten the 2, 3, 6, and 7th was correct if you're starting from E major - because we normally write a major scale as "1 2 3 4 5 6 7", and phrygian mode (in comparison) is 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7.
    E major = E F# G# A B C# D# E
    Flattening 2, 3, 6 and 7 (in this case) means removing the sharps, leaving you with E F G A B C D E. This is the "parallel" method Malcolm mentioned.

    Now, the thing that throws most people is that these 7 notes can be found in many patterns on the neck. There is no "phrygian pattern", because E doesn't have to be the lowest note. Any arrangement of the notes ABCDEFG will do.
    They can be any one of 7 "relative" modes, but what makes those 7 notes phrygian is being able to hear E as the root, the tonal center.
    IOW, if you have an Em chord, or E bass note, and play those notes in any order over it, it will sound like E phrygian. (It helps to finish on an E too, but where you start doesn't matter.)
    So E needs to sound like your "home note".

    OTOH, if you take what some website says is an "E phrygian pattern" and play it over (say) an F chord, what you will get is an F lydian sound. Even if you finish on an E note it won't sound phrygian, it will sound like F lydian finishing on the 7th. IOW, the chord (bass/root note) rules.

    Hope that hasn't confused you even more...

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    So are relative and parallel modes completely different from one another? By the sounds of it, relative modes only trick the ear into thinking they're hearing the same scale in a different key and parallel modes actually change the notes to give a different sound?

    Because when I was reading I was trying to find the correlation in both. They said starting on the 3rd would "sound phrygian", and if I'm thinking correctly wouldn't E be the 3rd for Db Maj? Would you get the same series of notes from doing the Db Maj scale in "E Phrygian" as you would flattening the 2nd, 3rd, etc?

    I found something that said modes rely entirely on the background chords, but is that true? Because I figured there had to be a real difference between E Phrygian and C Maj (I think it is) otherwise calling it a "mode" because you're playing over an E chord instead of C would be kind of useless I think.

    Thanks for the help so far.

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    modes are kind of like those optical illusion things where if you look at them one way it looks like a chalisse and then another like two faces facing each other.

    they're all the same but seen from a different perspective.

    the backing chords, the way they've been arranged, can offer that perspective, or just a single drone note, or just the manner in which you play.

    Cmajor scale and Aminor scale are like this. both the same thing but because of the order you played those exact same notes, the mind observes them from a different perspective, and prefers that it resolves to Aminor rather than Cmajor for example.

    I said it before and i'll say it again, timing is everything, timing and order of things, and some timings and orders of things causes "the pattern" to have a certain sound, that you might call phrygian or aeolian or whatever. but the notes are all the same. "the pattern" is always the same, just your perspective of it is different.

    the "lowest" note of the key sounds different. and the way you structured the song makes it that way.

    how do you do that?

    i'm not sure there is a technical answer to that.

    if you play a drone of the degree you want to be your root that will generally do the trick, because that will give your mind the perspective of that mode and so you'll make a song in that mode.

    basically you just need to play in such a way that a note other than the first degree is your root note. and some things can help you do that not the least of which is the appropriate backing chords.

    imo over just one chord in a song you won't achieve this.

    to me, i find it kind of a pointless excercise to view a song chord by chord.

    i find the sound comes from the key it is in. the notes in their relative key position, and this way your music will flow more nicely from one chord to the next possibly. i could imagine that if you separate it, then you'd be stuck trying to come up with segways from one scale to another knowing what the next chord is and whatnot, and that sounds too complicated and with too much thinking for my liking.

    I prefer to just listen and play accordingly and what helps me do that the most is to view every song basically the same way except for rhythm.

    just combinations of notes relative to "the pattern" sometimes you might play two or 3 notes at a time and build chords that way, and sometimes you might just play one at a time.

    for example i find it much more simple and helpful to view the seventh of the key, as the seventh of "the pattern" and no matter what chord comes up, sometimes if you play the root chord it might be the 7th, other times it might be the 3rd or the root. but that note, to me, will always have that same character to it regardless of the chord it is in, just because of where it sits relative to "the pattern". but it will also have a little different of a character because of the other notes played with it.

    modes are this way also, the notes are the same but have a different character because of the way you've arranged them.

    if you look at the notes you want to improvise with in relation to every chord you play, then you've complicated things alot.

    you could imagine that you'd be playing a song in its key and then somebody is looking at what scales go well with which chords and they'll say phrygian let's say for a given chord, and then you would find out that phrygian compared to that chord is actually still your key scale you've been using.

    alot of other scales would be the same thing except adding a note here or there, but those notes are only really good in special circumstances imo and not so fool proof as the key scale of like pentatonic, so i don't really find them so useful.

    the major scale uses 7 out of 12 notes. there are only 5 isolated notes left that you can learn to add at certain times. and the isolated part is key because they are always next to a fool proof note you can just slide over and solve to.

    but if you want this site:


    http://all-guitar-chords.com/scales-to-chords.php


    will allow you to build chord sequences and it will show you scales you can use for which chords and stuff.

    If i were to find a use for modes, i find it would be more just for chord relationships, because having a different root will cause chords to play different roles.

    for improvising\soloing, i wouldn't bother.

    if you want to practice chord relationships of modes, if i were you i'd just learn a bunch of songs that are different modes, recognize those modes and the degree of the chords and do that alot so you start to recognize the common roles of degree for given modes.
    Last edited by fingerpikingood; 08-21-2009 at 01:57 PM.

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    So if my buddy is playing rhythm behind me and he's changing up the chords while I stay with the same scale, could I play the exact same lick over different chords, would that be modes? You know like starting with Ionian then due to the chords it becomes Phrygian etc?

    But yes I know what you're talking about, because I've got a lick I've come up with in Emaj but it has no E notes in it and it does sound sort of mysterious over a standard Emaj progression.

    On the other hand, can you just throw in Phrygian notes as passing notes when you're using parallel modes? Because if you flatten the 2, 3, 6, and 7 it sounds like a totally different scale. Should you play in the regular key and throw in the flattened notes just to randomize it a bit? Or do the melody in maj then phrygian the solo? If you have any audible examples of how to incorporate this into your playing it'd be greatly appreciated.

  7. #7
    Registered User Malcolm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mardanlin
    So if my buddy is playing rhythm behind me and he's changing up the chords while I stay with the same scale, could I play the exact same lick over different chords, would that be modes? You know like starting with Ionian then due to the chords it becomes Phrygian etc?

    But yes I know what you're talking about, because I've got a lick I've come up with in Emaj but it has no E notes in it and it does sound sort of mysterious over a standard Emaj progression.

    On the other hand, can you just throw in Phrygian notes as passing notes when you're using parallel modes? Because if you flatten the 2, 3, 6, and 7 it sounds like a totally different scale. Should you play in the regular key and throw in the flattened notes just to randomize it a bit? Or do the melody in maj then phrygian the solo? If you have any audible examples of how to incorporate this into your playing it'd be greatly appreciated.
    Let's back up and start over. Forget about modes right now.
    So if my buddy is playing rhythm behind me and he's changing up the chords while I stay with the same scale, could I play the exact same lick over different chords, would that be modes? You know like starting with Ionian then due to the chords it becomes Phrygian etc?
    Depends on what chords your buddy is playing. Now if he is playing a chord progression using chords from the scale/key you are using both of you can change up all you want - as long as you stay with chords and notes from the same scale/key. For instance.

    You and your buddy decide to play in the key of G. OK here are your choices for the melody notes. i.e. gather melody notes from the........
    G major scale over the entire chord progression.
    G major pentatonic over the entire chord progression.
    G Blues scale over the entire chord progression.

    While you are doing that your buddy is laying down a chord progression of chords from the key of G. For example; G, Am, Bm, C, D, Em, F#dim. Normal drop dead dirt simple chord progression could be G, C, D7 and back to G to close the verse or chorus. Right at first - close enough - as long as he is moving between the G, C, D7 & back to G chord and you are playing those three scale choices listed above you'all will sound OK. NOW .......

    To sound better than OK. You both should be harmonizing as you go through the song. To do that you both need to be playing some of the same notes at the same time, i.e. While he is playing the G chord (G, B, D) your melody should have at least one of those notes in it. Now when he decides to move to the C chord (C E G) are you still harmonizing? Yes if your melody had some G notes in it there is a G note in the C chord so you still harmonize. Now he moves to the D7 chord (D F# A C) is your old melody still harmonizing? Probably as your old melody contained the G B and D note and the D7 chord has a D note in it's makeup - so you are still harmonizing. Point - If he is using a I IV V chord progression it contains every note in the scale. So you are free to use notes from that scale and probably both of you will have at least one of the same notes in play at any time during the song - thus you will harmonize.

    Now if you want to sound ever better than that when he moves in the progression TO THE NEXT ESTABLISHED CHORD (next chord in the sheet music) - next established chord so you know where he is going -
    When he is playing G chord you use the G major pentatonic scale.
    When he is playing C chord you use the C major pentatonic scale.
    When he is playing D chord you use the D major pentatonic scale.

    Why, well your chance to have a couple of notes harmonizing is really good. Anytime you gather your notes from the chord tones you are in safe country. Pentationic will have 3 chord tones and 2 safe notes in it's makeup.

    Someone brought up chords and their importance in governing what melody notes you use. YES.

    Forget about modes. The major and minor 7 note scale (Inoian and Aeloian if you insist), the 5 note major and pentatonic scale and then just for fun the blues 6 note scale will give you plenty of choices right now. NOW BACK TO YOUR QUESTION.
    On the other hand, can you just throw in Phrygian notes as passing notes when you're using parallel modes? Because if you flatten the 2, 3, 6, and 7 it sounds like a totally different scale
    After you get using the major and minor scales down and are comfortable then if you want a dreamy mood sharp the 4th - you just threw Lydian into the mix. Or if you want a Spanish mood flat the 2, 3, 6 & 7 and Pyrygian just entered the song. You may use that for 3 measures or the entire song, up to you.

    Use mode this way and it remains simple. If you need them use them if not just stick with the major or natural minor scale.

    Have fun.
    Last edited by Malcolm; 08-21-2009 at 03:37 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by mardanlin
    So if my buddy is playing rhythm behind me and he's changing up the chords while I stay with the same scale, could I play the exact same lick over different chords, would that be modes? You know like starting with Ionian then due to the chords it becomes Phrygian etc?
    In a way, yes. The exact same lick will sound different because of the backing chords, and it's possible to describe those differences in modal terms.
    However, it's not normally the most important issue (or an important issue at all).
    Most chord sequences have a key centre: a tonic chord (I) which dictates the overall key (or occasionally an overall mode). Other chords would have secondary functions (IV, V, ii, etc) relating to that tonic, and not to their own root note. Eg, an F chord in key of C is a "IV chord in C major (C ionian)", and not (in any useful sense) a "I chord in F lydian".

    For the effects of changes to be truly modal (different mode on each chord), each chord would have to last some time, so that you hear it as a tonality in its own right, and not just as a deviation from the tonic.

    In modal jazz, you often get a totally different scale on each new chord. There would be very few chords in a sequence, but each one would probably last at least 4 bars (typically 8), and each one would have a different root note, or different set of notes, or both.
    This hardly ever happens in rock. (I would like to know of examples if and when it does.)
    Quote Originally Posted by mardanlin
    because I've got a lick I've come up with in Emaj but it has no E notes in it and it does sound sort of mysterious over a standard Emaj progression.
    How mysterious it sounds depends more on exactly what other notes there are.
    Generally, it would need to contain all the notes in the chords in the progression. If your progression is E-A-B (triads), then your only "inside" option is the E major scale (whether or not you choose to include the E note!)
    If you were using power chords (no 3rds) then a few other scales are applicable - ie, E mixolydian, E dorian, E aeolian.
    Quote Originally Posted by mardanlin
    On the other hand, can you just throw in Phrygian notes as passing notes when you're using parallel modes? Because if you flatten the 2, 3, 6, and 7 it sounds like a totally different scale. Should you play in the regular key and throw in the flattened notes just to randomize it a bit? Or do the melody in maj then phrygian the solo? If you have any audible examples of how to incorporate this into your playing it'd be greatly appreciated.
    It doesn't really work like this.
    Sometimes you can do as you say. But the way to think, in general, is not modally but "inside vs outside".
    Take that basic E-A-B E major sequence. The E major scale is the only scale that fits the whole sequence (because the chords contan all 7 notes of that scale between them).
    On each individual chord you could alter some of those notes, because each chord only has 3 notes. So on the E chord you could introduce a phrygian b2 (F), b6 (C) or b7 (D). But a b3 (G) will sound "out" because of the G# in the chord. (Sometimes that would sound OK, because a b3 on a major chord is familiar and "correct" in blues. But blues isn't phrygian...)
    On the B chord, however, that F natural is going to sound wrong because the chord has an F# (and the D will clash with that chord's D#).
    And the C won't work on the A chord.

    See what I'm saying? It all comes back to understanding what notes are in the chords. Understand how the chords work first, before trying to apply some kind of scale or mode theory.

    That doesn't mean you can't use other notes! "Chromaticism" is the art of adding "wrong notes" (from outside the key scale) - that means any of the other 5 (beside the inside or "diatonic" 7). And it is an art - making wrong notes sound right!
    Jazz musicians are expert at this - and most of them will be thinking in this way: "inside vs outside", not in modes or even in scales.
    "Inside" means "safe", smooth, OK... and yeah maybe a bit dull.
    "Outside" means edgy, spicy, dramatic; "wrong" but in a good way (if done right).
    Obviously the art/craft is in maintaining a tasteful balance between the two.

    The general rule is that any outside note resolves to an inside one, normally by a half-step up or down, and normally to a chord tone. Experienced jazz musicians can play whole outside phrases before resolving, which is a little like juggling on a tightrope... ... IOW, unless everything is perfectly timed and balanced, it's easy to fall off and look an idiot.

    But the point is that these outside notes work in relation to the "inside" key scale or mode. It's not about applying other modes - UNLESS you have a sequence where the chords don't actually dictate a single scale, but leave 2 or 3 options open.
    Eg, you might have a simple E-A sequence, alternating major chords. You have 2 main choices there: E major or E mixolydian (A major). Still not a lot of leeway of course, because those 2 triads dictate 5 of the notes.
    The difference between E major (ionian) and mixolydian is the D#/D note, but there is also the F/F# open to variation. Which gives you the options of A harmonic major (E F G# A B C# D), or the even more exotic E F G# A B C# D#, which is some kind of Indian raga scale.

    So we're still thinking "what notes are in the chords?" and "what other notes do I need to make a 7-note scale?" - and lastly "how can I use the remaining 5 chromatic notes to add dissonant interest?"

    And don't forget this is still all about GROUND RULES: finding the raw material. You then need to use that stuff to MAKE MUSIC - which is all about phrasing, timing, dynamics, articulation... So don't spend too long worrying about scales! Find notes that fit, and then start thinking about shaping them into something.
    (No one cares if you're playing phrygian mode or whatever. They care what kind of melodies you're making and what kind of groove you're creating. IOW, the language you're using is less important than what you're saying with it.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by mardanlin
    So if my buddy is playing rhythm behind me and he's changing up the chords while I stay with the same scale, could I play the exact same lick over different chords, would that be modes? You know like starting with Ionian then due to the chords it becomes Phrygian etc?

    But yes I know what you're talking about, because I've got a lick I've come up with in Emaj but it has no E notes in it and it does sound sort of mysterious over a standard Emaj progression.

    On the other hand, can you just throw in Phrygian notes as passing notes when you're using parallel modes? Because if you flatten the 2, 3, 6, and 7 it sounds like a totally different scale. Should you play in the regular key and throw in the flattened notes just to randomize it a bit? Or do the melody in maj then phrygian the solo? If you have any audible examples of how to incorporate this into your playing it'd be greatly appreciated.
    I haven't read the other responses to your last post, but i find it's basically all just relative.

    if you dissect a chord sequence and separate it by chords, then you could very well say that, say you were playing the key scale, over another chord of the sequence which isn't the root chord, you'd be playing a given mode.

    but if you compare that portion of music to the key scale, then you'd be just playing the key scale.

    the way i look at it is i just find the key scale, and use that for my framework, and then relative to that i can basically do whatever i want, because i know the sounds of the notes of the key scale and what they will give me, and from that all the other notes are just half steps away, so i can know what of those will give me as well.

    I prefer not to look at scales in any more depth than that.

    for example you can look at the pentatonic scale and then the pentatonic blues scale. there is a difference of just one added note in the latter scale.

    is it important to learn both scales? well to me, no it isn't. I just take the pentatonic and know that there's a passing note in there.

    when you look at scales imo it will be this way all the time. as far as i can tell it is that way at any rate. I can't be completely sure because once i figured that out i stopped bothering with other scales.

    to me those other scales are kind of redundant, and no more, in fact less, useful than just learning licks you like, because licks will give you rhythmic ideas as well as ideas in the order of notes you play.

    I mean if you are playing a key scale and then add in 2 separate notes that aren't part of it, you could say you played a brand new scale, include those 2 notes in it and there you have a new scale you can give a name.

    or you could just look at it like the key scale to which you decided to play 2 notes that aren't part of it.

    that's the way i prefer.

    when i first looked at modes, i thought it would open up a bunch of doors, because i could just play some other scale, essentially sliding over the key scale a few frets, in order to achieve some exotic sound, but i found that this is not the case.

    it will end up just sounding bad. at least that's my experience.

    as far as i can tell, if you want to get exotic sounds, you would need to play around with arpeggios of the key scale, have exotic chord sequences that use out of scale notes in the chords and incorporate those in your soloing, and also using those out of scale notes.

    i don't like to use "randomize" when referring to music, but i must admit, that sometimes i like to just go random, and play something that basically i know won't work, and don't expect what it will sound like, and then immediately that will inspire me in some way how to bring it back and make it sound nice.

    so kind of random, but not really.

    i find if you go for random, it will show. even if you play randomly within a framework of theory that tells you which notes will "work".

    this is essentially how a computer would "improvise".

    you can do it this way without causing people to frown. computers can improvise, but imo really to make a good solo you need more than that. you need to listen. to the music and to yourself.

    to me music and most things are best as reactions rather than actions. people generally always ask, "who do you do this, or that?" and to me, the answer is listen, and react, not so much do. not so much force or make happen but allow to happen.

    in order to achieve this, imo you need to let go of theory. i'm not saying don't learn theory, but don't use it as instructions. don't use it as rules that tell you when you can play what.

    you can always play anything at any given time depending on how you phrase it.

    instead, listen, pay attention, to yourself and to other music. experiment both yourself with "random" experiments. first beginning with your key scale, and then with trying parts outside of it.

    and while you do that, learn what all the names of things are, and how the parts relate to each other, meaning the degrees of chords of a song. the position of the notes you use of the key scale, and then you can learn to associate the sounds with their names.

    I like to compare it to cooking.

    you can follow a recipe, like following sheet music.

    you can take advice from cooks as to what combinations of foods go well together, and based on that advice you can create your own recipes.

    but really if you want to make great recipes, you need to be able to associate the flavours of foods, how preparing them affects their flavour.

    you need to be able to imagine how the combinations will taste.

    for this you need to cook alot, experiment alot, and taste alot of foods.

    the truly important part is how the food tastes, the flavours of the ingredients, and how different treatments of them will affect them.

    the names of the ingredients and the names of methods of preparation aren't really that important. but they are irreplaceable when it comes to organizing those ideas in your mind and communicating with other chefs.

    but there are no rules. everything is fair game. however it is true that certain things go nicely together, and certain things taste better or worse depending on how you prepare them.

    just basing your creations on these known combinations though i don't recommend necessarily. but learn them, and know them for sure. sometimes that's what you'll want.

    there is no secret to music. no sentence or paragraph or book that will teach you to improvise on its own. you can't read something and then with that in mind grab your guitar and all of a sudden have improved.

    there is no sound in text.

    you need to play, and play alot. and try different things and name them. then over time you'll know what you're doing and be able to instantly access the sound you desire, while having discovered new great sounds on your journey that you would have never thought of before.

    I feel you for wanting sound bytes to go along with posts, and that's really good that you want that.

    but unfortunately, I can't really show you any of that stuff in a theory way.

    i'd just say. here, this song is in this key, with these chords, and my solo sounds like this.

    that's about the extent of my theory.

    but once we get a new section here that i think we will get, we'll be able to do more stuff like this, and others that are much more knowledgeable than me for scales and stuff like that like JonR and Malcom, will be able to describe those things better.

    hopefully the section will be up sooner rather than later.

    until then, if i were you, i'd just start off simply. find a song i like, find the key it is in, find the chords it uses, name those degrees of chords, and experiment with the key scale rhythmically and melodically and then once you know it real well throw in those other notes around it.

    in fact even better rather than the major scale start off with pentatonic, there's only 5 notes in that one so you'll get to know it quicker.

  10. #10
    Registered User JonR's Avatar
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    ^ Nice post!

  11. #11
    Registered User bluesking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perryd101
    My latest e-book will help you.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/19380929/1-Jazz-Scale
    Erm, I doubt your "latest e-book" will help anyone.

    Illiterate, badly explained, simultaneously patronising and arcane. These are just some of the criticisms that may be leveled against it.

    What a way to start off your posting history, eh? Blatant self promotion, which is only marginally relevant, and of terrible quality to boot.
    "Shut Up 'n Play Yer Guitar"

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  12. #12
    Registered User JonR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluesking
    Erm, I doubt your "latest e-book" will help anyone.

    Illiterate, badly explained, simultaneously patronising and arcane. These are just some of the criticisms that may be leveled against it.

    What a way to start off your posting history, eh? Blatant self promotion, which is only marginally relevant, and of terrible quality to boot.
    Harsh, but fair.

    I'd be slightly kinder and say at least it looks nice . Let down, of course, by the poor grammar, and misleading illustrations of (basically correct) info. (And the fact it looks nice makes it that much worse, because it gives a spurious air of authority.)

    The more I scroll down the worse it gets, actually...

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