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Thread: website music training test

  1. #1
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    website music training test

    figured i'd make this its own thread.

    http://www.tonometric.com/

    i did the adaptive hearing test, i'll do the rest too. we should each do them and then compare at the end how we did.
    Last edited by fingerpikingood; 03-07-2010 at 07:26 PM.

  2. #2
    Registered User JonR's Avatar
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    Here's my scores:

    Tonedeaf: 77.8%
    Adaptive pitch: 0.6 Hz
    Rhythm: 84%
    Musical-visual: 90%

    I found the rhythm one the hardest, and I'm quite surprised I did so well. (It may be a fluke, as I guessed some of them .)

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    i did two so far, i found the rhythm a bit difficult too, but i find that test wasn't well conducted, because the clips weren't linked in tempo. there's one clip, and then a pause, and then you have to remember what the last clip was like without getting disturbed by the current one. for me, if i'm going to copy a rhythm i'll likely keep to the same tempo and never break it and then copy the lick. so i didn't find that one so good. the pitch one, i foudn doing it fast was bad, and i think that's because the relative comparison of previous test screws you up. but you could repeat many times, so that was good, but still, sometimes i found it easier than others to find even more similar differences than the last one, which i don't understand why. but i did really well on that one. i'll do the other ones at some other point.
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    Last edited by fingerpikingood; 03-10-2010 at 12:02 AM.

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    Adaptive Pitch: 0.9
    Rhythm: 86%
    Tonedeaf: 83.3%
    Musical-Visual: 95%

    To me the adaptive pitch one was the hardest test. I wonder how I would score on a different day..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chordy_Ordy25 View Post
    Adaptive Pitch: 0.9
    Rhythm: 86%
    Tonedeaf: 83.3%
    Musical-Visual: 95%

    To me the adaptive pitch one was the hardest test. I wonder how I would score on a different day..
    idk, that's intersting though, i've always wondered about perfect pitch and how precise it is and stuff like that, because really the frequencies we use for music are completely arbitrary.

    at what point did you cease to be able to hear the pitches as distinct pitches?

    what's weird about these tests to me too, is that i'd say that easily my strength in music is my rhythm. and yet i didn't do so well on that part of the test.
    Last edited by fingerpikingood; 03-10-2010 at 02:44 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fingerpikingood View Post
    idk, that's intersting though, i've always wondered about perfect pitch and how precise it is and stuff like that, because really the frequencies we use for music are completely arbitrary.

    at what point did you cease to be able to hear the pitches as distinct pitches?

    what's weird about these tests to me too, is that i'd say that easily my strength in music is my rhythm. and yet i didn't do so well on that part of the test.
    The pitches always seem to fall into their respective slots as long as they are moderately sharp or flat. It's the tones that fall more or less perfectly between tones that are really hard for me. I don't know what to call those tones really. Like my dryer hums neatly between B and Bb. With the adaptive pitch test I just really started having a hard time telling higher or lower as the hz got close to be honest. I don't think it had anything to do w/AP I just simply was unable to percieve the differences in hz when they started getting really close, below 1 hz. I think it's amazing that you guys were able to discrimate reliably below .75. That's awesome! 0.4? Wow? How can you hear that? You guys have great ears. I struggled so hard with it, even guessed at times. Anyway, I was surprised by my rhythm score actually b/c I consider myself rhythmless, lol. I mean I understand rhythm when I hear it, I guess, but this does not translate well bodily b/c I cannot dance, lol. I mean I can, but it feels (and sometimes looks) very awkward, uncomfortable and clumsy for me. I have a feeling that rhythm test was testing more rhythm/music memory than actual
    rhythm. The same with the tonedeaf exercise. The visual exercise was hard to b/c I had to actually think about and consciously process what was going on in each piece. Had to replay those tracks multiple times so I could make sense of the picture system they were using. Those symbols looked different than the ones my mind was seeing.

  7. #7
    Registered User JonR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fingerpikingood View Post
    what's weird about these tests to me too, is that i'd say that easily my strength in music is my rhythm. and yet i didn't do so well on that part of the test.
    I also feel rhythm is one of my strong suits. You scored the same as me: 84%. The chart says that's between "Outstanding" and "World class". I'm happy to settle for that.

    Don't quite understand what you say about the rhythm test. Each one of each pair of clips was the same in terms of tempo - there were just details of pattern that (sometimes) differed. I found it hard because they were so complicated. Even using the repeat option sometimes didn't help. As I said before, I guessed a few of the answers, but (on average) that shouldn't affect the result because I'd be as likely to guess wrong as right. (I was obviously sure of enough of them to get 84%.)

    Personally I found the adaptive pitch easiest, because it involved the least memory. (The tone-deaf and the rhythm tests involved holding the first clip in memory, which I found tough, esp when they often made little musical sense.)

    The musical-visual is an odd one, and (being trained as a visual artist) I was occasionally sure I'd got a right answer, so was annoyed when it said "sorry" .

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chordy_Ordy25 View Post
    The pitches always seem to fall into their respective slots as long as they are moderately sharp or flat. It's the tones that fall more or less perfectly between tones that are really hard for me. I don't know what to call those tones really. Like my dryer hums neatly between B and Bb. With the adaptive pitch test I just really started having a hard time telling higher or lower as the hz got close to be honest. I don't think it had anything to do w/AP I just simply was unable to percieve the differences in hz when they started getting really close, below 1 hz.
    Sure. That's the point of the test, where it starts sorting the sheep from the goats, as it were...
    Quote Originally Posted by Chordy_Ordy25 View Post
    I think it's amazing that you guys were able to discrimate reliably below .75. That's awesome! 0.4? Wow? How can you hear that?
    I would often be guessing right when it said the difference was 0.375, but I got almost as many wrong. As soon as it adjusted itself back up to 0.75, I could hear difference much more reliably. Generally I sped through this test, only using the repeat option once or twice at the 0.375 level.
    I don't really think I have "amazing" ears - at least not musically. I don't have AP, and my RP is really not that good. I often can't tell if my guitar is out of tune when someone else can (although usually I can spot something, I just don't know where it is). I certainly can't tell the difference between equal temperament and just intonation.
    But the unnatural environment of this test helped, by removing all extraneous data other than the pitches themselves. I found it quite easy to focus on those tiny differences.

    IOW, I'm suggesting that if one feels good about the results of this test (and I admit I did) it means nothing regarding one's musical skills. (When I've done more musical RP exercises online, I haven't scored particularly well.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chordy_Ordy25 View Post
    The visual exercise was hard to b/c I had to actually think about and consciously process what was going on in each piece. Had to replay those tracks multiple times so I could make sense of the picture system they were using. Those symbols looked different than the ones my mind was seeing.
    Yes, it's an odd way of having to think. I latched on to it pretty well - not having to use the repeat option much at all - but as I said I was occasionally annoyed by a wrong answer (in a way I wasn't on the other tests), because I thought I'd understood the system and it seemed their choice of symbols was debatable. Still mostly they were pretty clear.

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    i mean the pauses between the clips, weren't in tempo with the clips. that messed me up a little. i would have preferred that the pause would be a bar of the clip tempos. cause you're right the clips all seemed to have the same tempo even if they were different.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chordy_Ordy25 View Post
    The pitches always seem to fall into their respective slots as long as they are moderately sharp or flat. It's the tones that fall more or less perfectly between tones that are really hard for me. I don't know what to call those tones really. Like my dryer hums neatly between B and Bb. With the adaptive pitch test I just really started having a hard time telling higher or lower as the hz got close to be honest. I don't think it had anything to do w/AP I just simply was unable to percieve the differences in hz when they started getting really close, below 1 hz. I think it's amazing that you guys were able to discrimate reliably below .75. That's awesome! 0.4? Wow? How can you hear that? You guys have great ears. I struggled so hard with it, even guessed at times. Anyway, I was surprised by my rhythm score actually b/c I consider myself rhythmless, lol. I mean I understand rhythm when I hear it, I guess, but this does not translate well bodily b/c I cannot dance, lol. I mean I can, but it feels (and sometimes looks) very awkward, uncomfortable and clumsy for me. I have a feeling that rhythm test was testing more rhythm/music memory than actual
    rhythm. The same with the tonedeaf exercise. The visual exercise was hard to b/c I had to actually think about and consciously process what was going on in each piece. Had to replay those tracks multiple times so I could make sense of the picture system they were using. Those symbols looked different than the ones my mind was seeing.
    ya i was surprised also, it was strange for me, sometimes i would think, ok these two tones are identical, and then, no wait, actually, clearly the second one is higher, and then i might go on a run where it's obvious, make a mistake, and then at the easier setting find it hard to distinguish again. idk, it's weird. sometimes if i focus too much too it screws me up. sometimes i hate tuning my guitar, because i'll sit there for a while trying and then i might think, ok, that's good and go and play and realize oh that's awful. but honestly, that might just be my guitar was injured, i had worn a bunch of the frets down to the point that i'd have multiple notes fretting at the same fret lol.

    i've only had that guitar for 3-4 years too. i think maybe the metal for the frets was a little soft though.

    but ya, to be honest, i'm not sure how i could hear those differences, and the test tests for reliably, so in that test i got some right that the test concluded were flukes, which may or may not be the case, maybe that happened to you too, and if you tried the test again you might get a better score. i seem to recall the lowest i made it too was 0.1..... but i could be wrong about that. idk, it would be cool if they debriefed you on that. because ya, it could have been a fluke, but also for some reason sometimes i found it easier or harder, so maybe it wasn't.

    and like i said, sometimes for the same tone difference i would think 'impossible', and sometimes i would think 'obvious'. so if you try it again, you might experience that too.
    Last edited by fingerpikingood; 03-10-2010 at 12:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JonR View Post
    Sure. That's the point of the test, where it starts sorting the sheep from the goats, as it were...
    I would often be guessing right when it said the difference was 0.375, but I got almost as many wrong. As soon as it adjusted itself back up to 0.75, I could hear difference much more reliably. Generally I sped through this test, only using the repeat option once or twice at the 0.375 level.
    I don't really think I have "amazing" ears - at least not musically. I don't have AP, and my RP is really not that good. I often can't tell if my guitar is out of tune when someone else can (although usually I can spot something, I just don't know where it is). I certainly can't tell the difference between equal temperament and just intonation.
    But the unnatural environment of this test helped, by removing all extraneous data other than the pitches themselves. I found it quite easy to focus on those tiny differences.

    IOW, I'm suggesting that if one feels good about the results of this test (and I admit I did) it means nothing regarding one's musical skills. (When I've done more musical RP exercises online, I haven't scored particularly well.)
    Yes, it's an odd way of having to think. I latched on to it pretty well - not having to use the repeat option much at all - but as I said I was occasionally annoyed by a wrong answer (in a way I wasn't on the other tests), because I thought I'd understood the system and it seemed their choice of symbols was debatable. Still mostly they were pretty clear.
    this might be because your hearing is acute, you have sensitive sensors, but you don't hear the way two notes interact like some other people do. they should do a test with a drone, that tests how you hear notes overlapping each other. this test only tested how pitch sensitive your ears are, not how well you perceive consonance and dissonance. that might be why others notice you are out of tune and you don't. because you are trying more to guess how far away two tones are, as compared to how you know they should be. whereas me, i would never do that, i just listen, and when the sound of 5th sounds like 5th, then that's a 5th. but like i said, sometimes i get in a tuning funk, but i will always be able to tell if the guitar is out of tune while i'm playing it. so tuning it properly is real important for me. even if it is slightly out of tune it will annoy me i can't handle it to a certain point, but it will bother me, but when an instrument is tuned properly it just sounds so fantastic.

    i'm not sure if you would notice the difference between stretch and equal tuning on a piano, but i know that in the higher up or lower down registers, if i play an octave i definitely notice the notes sound out of tune in equal temperament, when in fact they are technically in tune according to theory and how you'd tune other instruments.

    judging by this test i'd suspect you could tell the difference the same way i can, but maybe not. one thing for sure, is that the difference in the higher register and lower is greater than the differences we've experienced in these tests.

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    What is just innotation? And what is stretch tuning?
    Last edited by Chordy_Ordy25; 03-10-2010 at 01:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chordy_Ordy25 View Post
    What is just innotation? And what is stretch tuning?
    You can read up on both on Wikipedia for more detailed information, but in short without getting into too much math:

    Just intonation refers to a tuning scheme where the relationships between the notes are based on "ideal" mathematical ratios based on the harmonic series...a problem is that an instrument like a piano tuned using just intonation can only play perfectly in tune in one key. (This led to the development of Equal Temperament, which is designed to that the relationships between the notes are the same in every key, however some intervals like thirds and fifths might be slightly "off" compared to the theoretically more "pure" intervals in just intonation.)

    Stretch tuning refers to a technique used by piano tuners, where the very lowest and highest notes are tweaked a bit (compared to their theoretical equal temperement values) to compensate for some issues brought about by the physical design of the instrument and to make the instrument sound more correctly in tune overall as a result.
    Last edited by walternewton; 03-10-2010 at 09:56 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chordy_Ordy25 View Post
    What is just innotation? And what is stretch tuning?
    There's a site dedicated to just intonation:
    http://www.justintonation.net/

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    Cool! Thank you both!

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