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Thread: Parallel minor question?

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  1. #1
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    Parallel minor question?

    Yes, I need to know what chords can I borrow from parallel minor. And right now I'm in the key of C. Say if I had a song in the key C and it used all the chords mainly the IV and V and it is major key song could I borrow from its parallel minor borrow strictly major chords from parallel minor? Is there rule stating you can not borrow the sixth chord in parallel minor because it'll change key or something?

  2. #2
    Registered User Malcolm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwest2419 View Post
    Yes, I need to know what chords can I borrow from parallel minor. And right now I'm in the key of C. Say if I had a song in the key C and it used all the chords mainly the IV and V and it is major key song could I borrow from its parallel minor borrow strictly major chords from parallel minor? Is there rule stating you can not borrow the sixth chord in parallel minor because it'll change key or something?
    Going out one chord will not change the key. If you go out long enough to change the tonal center, then you have changed keys. Just going out one or two notes or chords normally will not change the key. Add interest yes, change keys no. It's when you go out and stay out long enough for the tonal center to shift then that's when you have changed keys.

    Substituting a like minor chord for a major chord (Cm for C) is done quite often. C is made of the C-E-G notes. Cm is made of the C-Eb-G notes. Normally if the substituted chord has two like notes you can substitute those two chords and not run into any harmonization problems.

    Parallel minor chords are explained on this site: http://www.angelfire.com/fl4/moneych...titutions.html In this example the Am or Em could be substituted for the C chord. C is made of the C-E-G notes. Am is made of the A-C-E notes and Em has the E-G-B notes. Notice you have two like notes in all those chords.

    Little more detail. http://www.piano-play-it.com/chord-substitution.html
    Last edited by Malcolm; 07-18-2012 at 07:57 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcolm View Post
    Going out one chord will not change the key. If you go out long enough to change the tonal center, then you have changed keys. Just going out one or two notes or chords normally will not change the key. Add interest yes, change keys no. It's when you go out and stay out long enough for the tonal center to shift then that's when you have changed keys.

    Substituting a like minor chord for a major chord (Cm for C) is done quite often. C is made of the C-E-G notes. Cm is made of the C-Eb-G notes. Normally if the substituted chord has two like notes you can substitute those two chords and not run into any harmonization problems.

    Parallel minor chords are explained on this site: http://www.angelfire.com/fl4/moneych...titutions.html In this example the Am or Em could be substituted for the C chord. C is made of the C-E-G notes. Am is made of the A-C-E notes and Em has the E-G-B notes. Notice you have two like notes in all those chords.

    Little more detail. http://www.piano-play-it.com/chord-substitution.html
    Thanks for sharing the website. I did not know that B dim and G major share two notes B and D

    B dim = (B D) F
    G major G (B D)

    When the seventh degree is added to them they share three notes in common which I did not know until I discovered for myself

    Bm7b5 = (B D F) A
    G7 = G (B D F)

    So to me they act almost the same.

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    Lightbulb

    Hey, I came up with this chord progression the orginal copy is this one iii-iv-vii-iii tonic to subdominant to dominant back to tonic

    But I thought about substiutions

    iii-(ii)-vii-iii The ii is sub for the IV
    iii-ii-(V)-iii The V is sub for the vii

    How does it sound to you?

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    Registered User Malcolm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwest2419 View Post
    Hey, I came up with this chord progression the orginal copy is this one iii-iv-vii-iii tonic to subdominant to dominant back to tonic

    But I thought about substiutions

    iii-(ii)-vii-iii The ii is sub for the IV
    iii-ii-(V)-iii The V is sub for the vii

    How does it sound to you?
    As ii and IV are both subdominant chords each can sub for each other.
    As V and vii are both dominant chords each can sub for each other. Normally V wants to resolve now, vii wants to resolve, but, is in no hurry. The vii being a leading tone chord it likes to lead (somewhere) and is used as the beginning chord in the classic turn-a-round vii, iii, vi, ii, V7, I. So want to move to the tonic I quickly use the V, not in a hurry use the vii.

    A chord progression does two things; 1) move the story along in the verse, i.e. I rest, IV tension and V climax to I resolution and back to rest, and 2) harmonize the melody by having like notes in the melody and the chord being used. If your progression meets this your good to go.

    Your ear is the final judge.
    Last edited by Malcolm; 07-18-2012 at 10:35 PM.

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    Thumbs up

    But I just learn some thing though. Like when you mix the chord families up you get different sounds at least to me do like:

    tonic - sub dominant - domniant

    tonic - dominant - sub dominant

    subdominant - domniant - tonic

    dominant - subdominant - tonic

    Each individually have there own different feeling or mood it's what I notice because lets be honest here a tonic - dominant - sub dominant is different from a dominant - subdominant - tonic.. The difference I think is the first list I listed lands on the sub dominant the second list lands on tonic which gives off a different fell and it helps me figure out what Im looking for when writing a song.

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    Registered User JonR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwest2419 View Post
    Thanks for sharing the website. I did not know that B dim and G major share two notes B and D

    B dim = (B D) F
    G major G (B D)

    When the seventh degree is added to them they share three notes in common which I did not know until I discovered for myself

    Bm7b5 = (B D F) A
    G7 = G (B D F)

    So to me they act almost the same.
    Indeed, well spotted. They both have a dominant function in key of C, resolving to the tonic.

    In fact, Bdim - or Bm7b5 - is almost never used in this way in key of C major. G7 is almost always preferred, at least in guitar music, because Bdim is awkward to play, and G7 is easier and (to most ears) sounds better too. If you want, you can still add the A and get G9, which is Bm7b5 with a G bass.

    It's in the key of A minor (at least in jazz) where you'll find Bm7b5 being used often - but as a subdominant chord (like Dm/B), leading to E7 and then Am.

  8. #8
    Registered User JonR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwest2419 View Post
    Yes, I need to know what chords can I borrow from parallel minor. And right now I'm in the key of C. Say if I had a song in the key C and it used all the chords mainly the IV and V and it is major key song could I borrow from its parallel minor borrow strictly major chords from parallel minor? Is there rule stating you can not borrow the sixth chord in parallel minor because it'll change key or something?
    Belated answer to the above (maybe to back up anything else you found)...

    You can borrow any chord from the parallel minor - except the tonic itself, because that's what governs the tonality (whether the key is major or minor).

    Eg, in key of C major, you can borrow all these chords from C minor (C natural minor):
    Dm7b5
    Eb
    Fm
    Gm
    Ab
    Bb

    The most common is Bb, followed by Eb and Ab. Fm is also quite common.
    Dm7b5 is quite rare (would probably be used like its inversion, Fm6). Gm is rarest of all.
    You can also make a case for Bdim7, borrowed from C harmonic minor.

    Any or all of these chords can be combined with the standard set from C major (C, Dm, Em, F, G, Am). In classic heavy rock, it tends to be all the major chords: C, F, G, plus Eb, Ab and Bb. If you disregard Ab (the least common of those), you'll see it means a major chord on each step of the C minor pentatonic. (But the key remains major, because the C chord remains major, and also because the F and G chords contain the other notes of the major scale.)
    Adding minors (Am, Dm, Em, plus Fm from C minor) adds more subtlety, with Fm being an especially mysterious effect.

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