Yes, I need to know what chords can I borrow from parallel minor. And right now I'm in the key of C. Say if I had a song in the key C and it used all the chords mainly the IV and V and it is major key song could I borrow from its parallel minor borrow strictly major chords from parallel minor? Is there rule stating you can not borrow the sixth chord in parallel minor because it'll change key or something?
Going out one chord will not change the key. If you go out long enough to change the tonal center, then you have changed keys. Just going out one or two notes or chords normally will not change the key. Add interest yes, change keys no. It's when you go out and stay out long enough for the tonal center to shift then that's when you have changed keys.Originally Posted by dwest2419
Substituting a like minor chord for a major chord (Cm for C) is done quite often. C is made of the C-E-G notes. Cm is made of the C-Eb-G notes. Normally if the substituted chord has two like notes you can substitute those two chords and not run into any harmonization problems.
Parallel minor chords are explained on this site: http://www.angelfire.com/fl4/moneych...titutions.html In this example the Am or Em could be substituted for the C chord. C is made of the C-E-G notes. Am is made of the A-C-E notes and Em has the E-G-B notes. Notice you have two like notes in all those chords.
Little more detail. http://www.piano-play-it.com/chord-substitution.html
Last edited by Malcolm; 07-18-2012 at 07:57 PM.
Thanks for sharing the website. I did not know that B dim and G major share two notes B and D
B dim = (B D) F
G major G (B D)
When the seventh degree is added to them they share three notes in common which I did not know until I discovered for myself
Bm7b5 = (B D F) A
G7 = G (B D F)
So to me they act almost the same.
Hey, I came up with this chord progression the orginal copy is this one iii-iv-vii-iii tonic to subdominant to dominant back to tonic
But I thought about substiutions
iii-(ii)-vii-iii The ii is sub for the IV
iii-ii-(V)-iii The V is sub for the vii
How does it sound to you?
As ii and IV are both subdominant chords each can sub for each other.
As V and vii are both dominant chords each can sub for each other. Normally V wants to resolve now, vii wants to resolve, but, is in no hurry. The vii being a leading tone chord it likes to lead (somewhere) and is used as the beginning chord in the classic turn-a-round vii, iii, vi, ii, V7, I. So want to move to the tonic I quickly use the V, not in a hurry use the vii.
A chord progression does two things; 1) move the story along in the verse, i.e. I rest, IV tension and V climax to I resolution and back to rest, and 2) harmonize the melody by having like notes in the melody and the chord being used. If your progression meets this your good to go.
Your ear is the final judge.
Last edited by Malcolm; 07-18-2012 at 10:35 PM.
But I just learn some thing though. Like when you mix the chord families up you get different sounds at least to me do like:
tonic - sub dominant - domniant
tonic - dominant - sub dominant
subdominant - domniant - tonic
dominant - subdominant - tonic
Each individually have there own different feeling or mood it's what I notice because lets be honest here a tonic - dominant - sub dominant is different from a dominant - subdominant - tonic.. The difference I think is the first list I listed lands on the sub dominant the second list lands on tonic which gives off a different fell and it helps me figure out what Im looking for when writing a song.
Which is why zillions of songs sound different due to all the combinations. Of course, the melody helps give all the songs their different characters.
Here's a video explaining the I-IV-V:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_20fKrDXGj
I recommend watching his other ones, too.
A good thing to do would be to listen to songs analyzing them. Figure out their functions, pick out the subs among other things.
I also watched a video regarding sight-reading where the lady said that often times, you try to decode while you play and it slows you down. IOW, decode the piece first, then play it. It's the same when playing by ear or trannscribing. Decode before you play.
Also, something Malcolm forgot was that iii/V share the same function, due to inversions. Inversion are the easiest way to apply the concept of substitution when explaining functionality.
Take C+ (augmented). C-E-G# This chord is the V in F; however, in first inversion, this becomes the V in A: E-G#-B# while in second inversion, it's becomes the V of C# (Db = Ab-C-E; enharmonic equivalents count, too) Also, notice the relationship between keys: major thirds. F-A and A-C#
More often then not, you see this with sevenths (iii7/V6)
Am7 the iiim7 in F; however, in first inversion, it's also the V6 in the same key. V6 in F = C6.
m7b5 inverted become m6 chords. iim7b5/iv6. In G: Am7b5-D7-GMaj7. Cm6-D7b9-G
Last edited by Color of Music; 07-19-2012 at 02:53 AM.
Indeed, well spotted. They both have a dominant function in key of C, resolving to the tonic.
In fact, Bdim - or Bm7b5 - is almost never used in this way in key of C major. G7 is almost always preferred, at least in guitar music, because Bdim is awkward to play, and G7 is easier and (to most ears) sounds better too. If you want, you can still add the A and get G9, which is Bm7b5 with a G bass.
It's in the key of A minor (at least in jazz) where you'll find Bm7b5 being used often - but as a subdominant chord (like Dm/B), leading to E7 and then Am.
Yes that feel you are feeling is the return, or like of, to resolution and rest.
Tonic - sub dominant - dominant - just hangs there waiting. If you let the dominant move to the tonic and complete the journey it's wanting to make, you get resolution. Its like a great big sigh.
OK how can we use that? End the verse on a dominant chord, then open the chorus with the tonic would pull you into the chorus.
Open with the tonic and end with the tonic completes the cycle. Not really necessary to open with the tonic, but if you want to close a phrase best way I know of is to end with the tonic. Little more on opening with the tonic; if you open the phrase with the tonic that calls attention to the key being used and lets the listener focus, i.e. get ready for what is coming. That may not be what you are wanting so you use something else....
Play around with that. You've got a lot of knowledge on how notes and chords are made, take it to the next level -- now can you use that knowledge to compose songs.
I think you are just before taking a giant leap. Have fun on your trip.
As a side note, how notes and or chords move to each other is a great study. We bassists (play chord tones one note at a time) design our bass lines like this R-3-5-X. R-3-5 of the chord in play just echoes that chord's notes - OK we get harmonization and that is our job. Another part of our job is to call attention to the chord changes. That X helps. How? If I let X be the dominant note of the next chord - that dominant note pulls us into the next chord. Many ways of doing that pulling. One of the more effective ways to call attention to the chord coming up is with a three note chromatic run to the next chord. That chromatic run, being out of key, alerts everyone that something is going to happen and then when we land on the next chord with the 4th beat - they know what the next chord is. Country bass is a lot of R-5-R-5 over and over to the beat of the music. That chromatic three note run to the next chord wakes everyone up - and keeps me from going to sleep. LOL
Take all your knowledge to the next step - how can I use this in a song. You do that by playing a lot of songs. You seem to like the nitty-gritty, and there is nothing wrong with that, so you may like to analyze songs and see what has been done and why. http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/...alphabet.shtml
Last edited by Malcolm; 07-23-2012 at 01:33 PM.
Belated answer to the above (maybe to back up anything else you found)...
You can borrow any chord from the parallel minor - except the tonic itself, because that's what governs the tonality (whether the key is major or minor).
Eg, in key of C major, you can borrow all these chords from C minor (C natural minor):
Dm7b5
Eb
Fm
Gm
Ab
Bb
The most common is Bb, followed by Eb and Ab. Fm is also quite common.
Dm7b5 is quite rare (would probably be used like its inversion, Fm6). Gm is rarest of all.
You can also make a case for Bdim7, borrowed from C harmonic minor.
Any or all of these chords can be combined with the standard set from C major (C, Dm, Em, F, G, Am). In classic heavy rock, it tends to be all the major chords: C, F, G, plus Eb, Ab and Bb. If you disregard Ab (the least common of those), you'll see it means a major chord on each step of the C minor pentatonic. (But the key remains major, because the C chord remains major, and also because the F and G chords contain the other notes of the major scale.)
Adding minors (Am, Dm, Em, plus Fm from C minor) adds more subtlety, with Fm being an especially mysterious effect.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote