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Thread: I dont understand ii-v-i after seeing this video

  1. #1
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    Unhappy I dont understand ii-v-i after seeing this video

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb8yv...eature=related

    This guy talks about how it is acceptable to land on the 1-3-5-7 of a chord. I never looked at it this way. I always played my scales to root to root (octave). He goes on to talk how potically is correct when playing the ii chord you dorian and for the V chord mixolydian and for the I chord ionian but what hesays how it is acceptable to land on the 1-3-5-7. Why?

    Wouldn't the best way be to make sure you land on the 3 or 7 notes. I want to become aware of what passing tones Im playing and what passing tones are anyway.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwest2419 View Post
    s how it is acceptable to land on the 1-3-5-7. Why?
    The answer to your question has been answered in one of your (numerous ) previous threads

    http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/...ad.php?t=19200

    JonR wrote a great post regarding target tones in the context of chromatic playing, the overall concept applies here too.

    So overall: target tones = chord tones. (eg for a maj7th chord = R 3 5 7)

    what's left over are non chord tones (b2, 2 b3, 4, #4/b5, b6, 6, b7) which can be divided into two categories:

    diatonic non-chord tones ( 2, 4, 6)
    non-diatonic non-chord tones (b2, b3, #4/b5, b6, b7 : ie chromatics)

    I really think you need to slow down and go over all the excellent advice you've been given in your previous threads and let it sink in. Your question in this thread shows you haven't done this...

  3. #3
    Registered User Malcolm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by borge View Post
    ,,,,,i really think you need to slow down and go over all the excellent advice you've been given in your previous threads and let it sink in. Your question in this thread shows you haven't done this...

    Yes!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwest2419 View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb8yvU3S1uo&feature=related
    This guy talks about how it is acceptable to land on the 1-3-5-7 of a chord. I never looked at it this way. I always played my scales to root to root (octave). He goes on to talk how potically is correct when playing the ii chord you dorian and for the V chord mixolydian and for the I chord ionian but what hesays how it is acceptable to land on the 1-3-5-7. Why?
    Wouldn't the best way be to make sure you land on the 3 or 7 notes. I want to become aware of what passing tones Im playing and what passing tones are anyway.
    I didn't look at the video, I just prefer not to do that (ie just in general, not just for your post, but for most if not all questions like this). Also, you can be sure that, as the other guys have said, Jon's answers will be brilliant on all these questions (we are very lucky to have him here). But, just to make a couple of comments on what your post says -

    - first thing; if someone is talking about "landing on 1,3,5,7" (as you said), then they just mean you can play any of those chord tones. You could start or end the phrase on any of those notes, or indeed just play any of those notes to make a phrase over that particular chord. That's fairly obvious really, because those are the strongest notes in the chord (often they are the only notes in the chord).

    - second thing; when you then say "I always played my scales from root to root (octave)", that really has nothing directly to do with what the guy should be saying about playing those particular chord tones (ie the 1,3,5,7 notes). By which I mean - a scale is one thing, and the notes of the chord are something else. Yes, of course it's true that the notes in the chord come from a scale (they are typically the 1, the 3, the 5, the 7, the 9, 11, etc), but what I'm saying is that if you are thinking in terms of a scale to play over that particular chord (whatever the chord is) then you can play any of the notes in that scale, though if you can manage to do it then usually the strongest notes to play at the change of chords are the 3 and the 7 ... so if you can practice it and learn to do it, then it's usually best to "lead" from the 7th of the current chord going down a half step to the 3rd of the next chord.

    - third thing; although you then talked about "passing tones", none of the above really has anything to do with playing any passing tones. Though, it just so happens that one popular way to "lead" from the b7th of the current chord to the 3rd of the next chord is by playing an extra passing tone or chromatic approach note from a half step below the 7th or the 3rd, but thatís' really getting a bit of the topic.

    I'm sorry if it sounds very repetitive, but as I often say in my answers to these sort of questions - personally I can't see any other effective way for you or anyone else to learn this stuff, except by buying a few good guide books of your own ... how else are you going to learn it if not from what some expert guitar teachers have taken the trouble to explain in a good book? Even if you have teacher explaining it to you, or if you try to use the internet (eg YouTube), or if you try to learn it from friends, then you will still need some really good reference books to show you lots of good examples and to give you clear written explanations of what's going on in this sort of playing.

    If you get a copy of Garrison Fewell's book "Jazz Improvisation For Guitar, A melodic Approach", then that actually explains very clearly which chord notes to hit and how to "lead the chord voices/notes" from one chord to the next. So just to be clear about that - if I was advising you, and trying to explain the answers to your questions, my advice would be to buy that book, and then I go over all the material in that book with you (if you are teaching yourself, then you just go over all the material from the book yourself, ie you stick to book open a music stand, get your guitar, open the book a page 1, and then make that your daily practice routine to work your way through as much of the book as you can ... if you do that from the book, then you will learn a lot about playing from chord tones and about voice leading on the chord changes ...

    ... but conversely, I doubt if you will really learn much, or really remember much about guitar playing just from bit's of film on YouTube. So ... get the book, and start practicing from that. And when you get stuck (which we all do), then look at Jon's answers and explanations here, and that will almost certainly help you to understand what the book is driving at.

    OK, so just so that posts like this are not wasted or falling on deaf ears, tell me what you think about buying a book like the one from Fewell Ö could you do that? If not, then why not? Is there any reason why you are trying to learn guitar from ad-hoc bits and pieces of film on YouTube or other internet sites? Do you think itís not such a great idea to practice from books or DVDís that you have bought?
     
    Fewell book - http://www.musicroom.com/se/id_no/0155566/details.html
     

  5. #5
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    Nice post Crossroads, that helps a lot!

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