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Thread: List of Tendencies

  1. #61
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    @Motherlode

    Ah yes that clarifies things a bit. At a certain point I can't keep coming up with new "headers". I'm kinda at the mindset now of whatever the person wants to use, but then clarify with "Positive" "Blue", building blocks used etc..

    I have thought before why didn't Russell use "+2" and "+6", but then it gets a little weird labeling with "+3" and "+1". So instead maybe it was a better idea to just be consistent with the header and get the orientation to be the main thing.

    The CDR is exactly that then, the distance as far as how many connections through 5ths (x3), as long as the correct Lydian Tonics are used. It's not implying "Dark".

    And the Chord Categories are not implying dark by having a "b5" for instance. To the Lydian Tonic that could be completely positive. This really seems to be communicating what notes are being played in a language that most players know.

    Streamlined in a way that can be applied efficiently.

  2. #62
    Registered User motherlode's Avatar
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    @Ken Valentino

    Subjective terminology such as dark, light, positive, negative, etc. has to be translated into varying degrees of distance (objective terminology) before I can actually work with it.

    With the CDR, both flat and sharp sides are needed, because a lydian tonic can move anywhere.
    BUT, with TG only the sharp side is used, because the flat side is simply the inversion.
    Last edited by motherlode; 08-13-2017 at 09:20 AM.

  3. #63
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    @Motherlode

    Yes I understand, Thanks!

    You're right, I'm not letting a Negative Tonal Number flip into being a Tonic. So of course it's not going to show up as a moved tonic on the CDR. Sorry about that.

    I had a memory of the "Flat" side and was curious.

  4. #64
    Registered User motherlode's Avatar
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    Please don't change anything that you're doing...just continue to refine it...
    --------------------------
    Let's do this, I'll take one of your algorithms posted here and treat it as if those are lydian tonics and create a CDR from the info.
    They're not lydian tonics, but it's the 'route' that I'm looking at...NOT the notes per se...then I'll write it into music.

    blueb3.png

    Key: C................................CDR
    ........+4...-2...-6...-3...-7...4...(I)...5...2...6...3...7...+4
    Bar:
    (1)............Db
    (2).......................Eb
    (3)............................................... ........A
    (4)............................................... ........................F#
    (5)............................................... ...D
    (6)............................................... .................B
    (7).............................................G
    (8)........................................C
    There's a wealth of information contained in that CDR, it's the music literally talkin' to you.

    For example, between the 2nd and 3rd bar, the music jumps from the flat-side to the sharp-side. The CDR points to maybe a suspension at that spot to ease the transition..things like that...
    --------------------------------
    Your algorithm produced this (it's quite good). Proper voicing ties the chords together like silk lace!

    #1 Gb-9sus ... Gbmaj9 #2 F-7#5 ... Ab9sus #3 F7#9#5 ... Db-13 #4 Ab69(b5)

    #5 Gb7#9#5 ... A13 #6 Db-11... #7 Eb7#9#5 ... Ab7#9b5 #8 C69(b5)
    Last edited by motherlode; 08-14-2017 at 06:10 PM.

  5. #65
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    @Motherlode

    Cool, I'll check it out!

    Many of those I think I can even play on guitar. Some I may have to sweep/arpeggiate to imply a chord.

    Yes that Eb--A is the biggest tonal leap, It could use help from some sort of strategy. You can see that easily from the CDR.

    So this allows you to harmonically support the route with the color that you want. So then the "route" is kinda like the guide tone line then that a melody could be danced around?

    I'm curious if the route can keep some of its subjective "Bluesyness" with the underlying chords being more subjectively bright. Sometimes blends like that can be the best sounding stuff.

    As soon as I get the chance I'll record down the chords and experiment with it. Thanks!
    Last edited by Ken Valentino 2; 08-10-2017 at 02:26 AM.

  6. #66
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    @Motherlode
    Nice Stuff!

    I'm hearing a Blue 3 and Blue 6 and then a Blue b3 after that quick sweep. So that definitely proves that the melody can have it's own flavor!


    Oh It looks like the example went away. I saved it earlier so I could put it on repeat.
    Last edited by Ken Valentino 2; 08-11-2017 at 03:54 PM.

  7. #67
    Registered User motherlode's Avatar
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    @Ken Valentino

    My audio example was a little pre-mature. I removed it because I didn't want you to be influenced by it.
    Last edited by motherlode; 08-12-2017 at 01:08 AM.

  8. #68
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    @Motherlode

    I added an actual bended version:
    http://freejazzinstitute.com/uploads..._Valentino.mp3


    I just overdubbed my guitar and panned it more to the right. I put bends in spots where I was perceiving them.


  9. #69
    Registered User motherlode's Avatar
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    @Ken Valentino

    Yeah Man, that's the sh*t! It's not the Blues, but it's awfully 'blue' lol ol

    Here's a re-post of the original Audio & Score


    http://freejazzinstitute.com/showpos...050_motherlode
    Last edited by motherlode; Yesterday at 06:50 AM.

  10. #70
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    @Motherlode

    Awesome!

    Yeah the blue notes even resolve back when I compare each one to the next. And that Blue 4 is a hard one to get, but you set it up great!

  11. #71
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    @Motherlode

    Alright, here's the latest version. I hope you don't mind, I took a couple of liberties with it.

    http://freejazzinstitute.com/uploads..._Valentino.mp3
    Last edited by Ken Valentino 2; 08-13-2017 at 11:19 PM.

  12. #72
    Registered User motherlode's Avatar
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    @Ken Valentino
    I hope you don't mind, I took a couple of liberties with it.
    LOL...are you kidding? That's a take! I had the phrase play through 3x specifically for that reason.
    Last edited by motherlode; 08-15-2017 at 12:58 PM.

  13. #73
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    @Motherlode

    Well that's a load off. Let's just say I've been in bands where the composer was a bit concrete in his vision


    On the subject of the melody.

    I really really liked your route to the blue 4, so I thought I'd map them all out as I perceived them.

    Ken's Mood Routes.jpg

    The thing I really want to point out is the 7:3x3. It's actually a really smooth natural way to get to those blue notes. Just looking at the notes I might have thought maj3rd, but "subjectively" I hear the 7th and 9th harmonic.

    This also shows up in the route to the Blue 4. The grey line through 8 3 +5 is a possible 3EDO which actually can add some resolution to the 4, but it's risky because it could easily add too much to the 4. I think the +4 is crucial to the route. It can help with hearing a Blue 8 and it can help keep the 4 from trying to be a Tonic.

    Last edited by Ken Valentino 2; 08-15-2017 at 08:43 AM.

  14. #74
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    Ken, can you extend what you meant by
    So that definitely proves that the melody can have it's own flavor!

  15. #75
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    @Anatole

    Well you know from concepts like Russell's "River Boat Trip" or Motherlode's "Parallel Universes" that the soloist can have different Tonics than the accompaniment. It can be important to sync up at some point to bring these disconnected parts back together. Terms like "Key Centering" and "Playing the Changes" allude to this fact.

    So it also follows that two parts can have different routes even if they share the same Tonic.

    "Low Rider" was always a song that intrigued me mood wise. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_iJ28iXwo0

    I hear the bass at first more Negative, next comes the vocals with Blue Notes and then the melody comes in Brighter. All with the same Tonic.

    The Neg b3 in the bass is different to me than the Blue b3 in the vocals. Going on at the same time, but each with a different flavor.

    Another example I use quite often is Miles's solo on "So What". We don't really think of that as a "Blues", but right in the middle of his solo I hear a Blue note plain as day.

    Last edited by Ken Valentino 2; Yesterday at 03:07 AM.

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