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Thread: List of Tendencies

  1. #31
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    For some reason I keep getting an "error loading file" at the freejazzinstitute. I've tried like six times. Sorry.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by motherlode View Post
    @Ken Valentino
    It was the respondent's distorted example that raised my ire...

    Oh Ok I understand. I read through too quick.

  3. #33
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    Ok I figured out what was wrong. There seems to be a limit to how long the audio files can be. So I at least have Positive Tonal Numbers posted now. http://freejazzinstitute.com/showpos..._Ken_Valentino

    Oh and if you hear something that sounds like a deflating balloon I apologize. We have a new puppy that apparently wanted to contribute.

    Direct link to +4 +5 and b3 http://freejazzinstitute.com/uploads..._Valentino.mp3

    Direct link to 4 b7 and b2 http://freejazzinstitute.com/uploads..._Valentino.mp3
    Last edited by Ken Valentino 2; 07-20-2017 at 07:13 PM.

  4. #34
    Registered User motherlode's Avatar
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    @Ken Valentino

    The sound makes it real.



    Last edited by motherlode; 07-31-2017 at 07:19 AM.

  5. #35
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    That's great!! Thanks for the feedback.

    Yeah the +5 was really challenging at first. I think I'm getting better at it, finding good routes to take. I'm striving to get as sweet and resolved as possible.

    I hadn't thought of it as being good to jam with, but that makes sense (If you happen to record some I'd love to hear it by the way). I have done some random listening to double check that I'm not adding a bias conceptually. In other words does it sound that way because I'm thinking that's what I want, or does it retain the sound even on a fresh random listen.

    I'll get to work on the blue notes next.

  6. #36
    Registered User motherlode's Avatar
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    @Ken Valentino

    I hadn't thought of it as being good to jam with...
    I'm not adding anything, I'm just following along, and really listening...but listening for 'nothing'. If I'm listening for 'something'... I'm bias.


    Last edited by motherlode; 07-31-2017 at 07:20 AM.

  7. #37
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    Awesome! Yeah I think you're right, I'll try and do that from now on.

  8. #38
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    Blue Tonal Numbers

    Ok we'll eventually get through examples of all 12 notes as Blue numbers, but we need to start with a very short but important example.

    http://freejazzinstitute.com/uploads..._Valentino.mp3

    At first harmonics are played. The last harmonic played is 1:7. Having a 7 in a ratio makes it a Blue Tonal Number.

    For every other example just standard E.T. tuning is used, I avoided bends etc.. We want to perceive it like the intonation of the harmonic, even though technically on a tuner it isn't.

    This can affect many things. Once a Blue Number is perceived then further connections can potentially become Blue Numbers. In the last example a positive blue b3 is attached. The result being that we could even have a resolved dom7(#9) as a Key Chord. Maybe that's why someone would feel the label #9 made more sense than b3.

  9. #39
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    Ken

    I'm reading your book, and thoroughly enjoying this further exposition of material. Thank you for sharing.

    Regards
    Tom

  10. #40
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    very nice example.

    I understand you don't play the 5 within that 7#9 chord (even though the 5 is still sounding within the 1),

    you don't want the 5 - b7 and 5 - b3 connections to conflict with the low tonic ? (~ statements #4 and #6 from post24)

    at a certain point you repeat c# - g - b# that starts to sound like C# lydian (bright +4 bright 7).
    also you played the just in tune b7 (ratio x7) just before so that c# - g ascending sounds bright at once.
    in the end you have the tritone up from the 3 that's sounding all right..
    so that's what you meant by
    (The +V chord category can be an even more similar sound to 11:8 with it's b7).
    ?

    really, very nice.
    Last edited by anatole; 07-21-2017 at 03:54 PM.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by anatole View Post
    very nice example.

    I understand you don't play the 5 within that 7#9 chord (even though the 5 is still sounding within the 1),

    you don't want the 5 - b7 and 5 - b3 connections to conflict with the low tonic ? (~ statements #4 and #6 from post24)
    5 - b7 is fine. That's 6:7, still the same as the harmonics first played. The 5 - b3 connection though can turn negative for me (minor chord) and 4th 5th connections retain the bluesy intonation better. Here's a map of the routes:


    Dom 7#9 Key Chord.jpeg

    Straight up and down is circle of 5ths.

    Quote Originally Posted by anatole View Post
    at a certain point you repeat c# - g - b# that starts to sound like C# lydian (bright +4 bright 7).
    also you played the just in tune b7 (ratio x7) just before so that c# - g ascending sounds bright at once.
    in the end you have the tritone up from the 3 that's sounding all right..
    so that's what you meant by
    ?

    really, very nice.
    It could be that your Tonic changed or you added a Tonic. In every example I can go directly to "A" and it tests out to be my only Tonic. If I play "C#" louder for example it tenses up. When you have an additional tonic on C# then adding mass to C# is a good thing. To my ears in this case it's not.

    How I'm hearing it, the b3 sounds positive and bluesy which is not the default "Lydian" 7 sound. It could also be you're confusing resolution with location. It resolves because I created more of a conflict beforehand and then played the Blue b3 nice and agreeable.

    If you're memorizing a number with only resolution in mind then you'll get turned around at some point. All Positive Tonal Numbers can be in Conflict or Agreement. Any of them can be resolved if the right strategy and route is used.

    Hope that helps!

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom R View Post
    Ken

    I'm reading your book, and thoroughly enjoying this further exposition of material. Thank you for sharing.

    Regards
    Tom
    You're Welcome! If you have any questions feel free to ask.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Valentino 2 View Post

    If you're memorizing a number with only resolution in mind then you'll get turned around at some point. All Positive Tonal Numbers can be in Conflict or Agreement. Any of them can be resolved if the right strategy and route is used.

    Hope that helps!
    OK. yes.

    How I'm hearing it, the b3 sounds positive and bluesy which is not the default "Lydian" 7 sound. It could also be you're confusing resolution with location. It resolves because I created more of a conflict beforehand and then played the Blue b3 nice and agreeable.
    OK.
    in your example, I found the c# - g [3 b7] really positive after having listened to the natural harmonics over tonic A
    I was wondering at that point could it be also heard as a 11/8 tritone (if it's positive) !?

    as I was repeating c# - g - c I tried to hear it as a +V chord adding a low A but I could not at that point c# not being the real tonic ?
    though now I realize as I repeat c# - g - c the c natural does not sound bright like a 7 as if playing c# - g# - b#

    so it was not [1 +4 7] that I was hearing, it was something else. I would have needed to bring in a 3 and a 5 to create a tonic on c# to hear a bright +4 and a bright 7 (and a +V chord with an A on the bass).

    so is c# - g - c basically a [3 b7 b3] ? well not until you've built low A as your tonic like you did in your example ?
    I believed the g - c connection would help the g to sound more like a +4 but actually not.



    put it that way, I want to test it myself,
    what could I be hearing playing a c# - g - c (a tritone up and a fourth up)
    perhaps it's too weak tonally and it could be anything at first ?

    so I play c# - g - c that I repeat several times, then I play an A on the bass.. and I hear how it feels.. not bad, pretty good.
    then again I play c# - g - c repeated, then I play a C# on the bass.. and hear how it feels .. well I liked it better with a low A. (it is the 3 (5:2) that makes it strong and simple)

    (reset. I go swinging some iron for a while)
    I play c# - g - c repeated, add a C# on the bass, OK.
    then again c# - g - c repeated, add an A on the bass. and it's also OK, fuller (the 3 is stronger) and more complex.




    I hope it makes sense.
    thank you Ken.
    Last edited by anatole; 07-22-2017 at 10:48 AM.

  14. #44
    Registered User motherlode's Avatar
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    @Ken Valentino

    I think I'm getting better at it, finding good routes to take
    The actual pitches are less important to me than what was the 'pathway' taken to get there. You're using the word 'route', but I understood exactly what you meant.
    Last edited by motherlode; 07-31-2017 at 07:47 AM.

  15. #45
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    @ Motherlode

    Yes exactly!

    I want to know the route taken and the story that goes with it. Charlie Parker's playing is a great example. Risky stuff that could sound as rough or as pretty as he wanted. 1/2 steps can be safe (like playing fast through a chromatic scale), but what you're talking about is the strong risky moves.

    I'm going to post more today, just wanted to respond quickly.

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