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hey Ken I got your book @B&N,
I'm not finished yet but for now it's been really interesting to read,
it's really the language of intervals and the listening to the sound thing.
it's quite remarkable. congratulations.
really, it's cool.
OK for it. very nice and very important indeed.
Then not only does this 225:128 b7 sound different, it also resolves to a +5. A bluesy 7:4 b7 on the other hand is more resolved than a b6. So those two notes can be completely backwards
a bVII from the V is really not the same sound as a bVII from the +IV and neither is from the III.
when you mean the maths back it up,
it's just a ratio calculus then ? from the 5 the connection is a minor third interval, maj third from the +4, tritone from the III,
I guess if we do the ratio calculus, the minor third from the 5 may equal the minor seventh up / whole step down from the I ?
that's very interesting to be able to back it up with the physics.
Then it even gets tricker because a 225:128 and a 7:4 are almost the same as far as intonation. So I can't play one without the possibly of the other being perceived instead. I have to connect differently, maybe even create a CT on +IV at first. After I learn to connect to it though, I can then get rid of the CT by not allowing the ear to build a Tonic there.
if we connect melodically we can sound different ratios (different/distant sounds/color, even more than we think that's what you meant with bigger ratios ?) while we play with the same ET12 notes ? (thats very important indeed). We can play blue notes/dark/conflicting intervals or very bright/floating/distant/agreeing intervals (which sounds more like contemporary music) depending on the intervals (/ certain tendencies) we played before ?
if we connect chordally voicing is super important in order to "select"/"counterbalance" the correct ratio/location we'd like for a note to sound at the moment,
so voicing chords is about combining low/high vs simple/complex open/close tendencies to build more or less obvious/agreement ? (very important also).
thank you Ken.
Last edited by anatole; 03-10-2017 at 04:56 PM.
Hey Ken, reading your book was definitely cool,
really appreciate the precision of the language, really interesting, it's one of a kind.
BTW. the chapter about Form ( ~Repetition) was really interesting.
I hope you'll go on with all the new stuffs.
Last edited by anatole; 03-27-2017 at 12:07 PM.
is there a difference between "extensions" and coexisting tonics ?
is there a difference between hearing contour or hearing equal division of the octave ? with EDO it feels like there is still gravity "flow" (the sound/gravity of a melodic interval) !?
thank you Ken
"Extensions" is a commonly used term. Back then there didn't seem to be a really good reason to change it.
Originally Posted by anatole
Nowadays though I'd rather be more specific. An extension could be sounding the way it does because of an additional Coexisting Tonic or it could be a larger almost prime ratio to a single tonic. For example a #11 could be a 3/TT or it could be 45:32.
As far as EDO still having gravity, I don't believe the "equal" part is what's creating attraction. For example a tritone(or 2 EDO) that's perceived as both notes being equally tense would be atonal. If instead we play/perceive the two notes as having differences in tension or color then we'd have tonality.
When I was writing that book the main way I dealt with tritones was to move away from it (MT's) or to create an additional Tonic(CT's). I still usually hear them that way, but I can also hear 11:8 or 45:32 at this point.
As far as "contour" though a TT wouldn't be equal, one note is higher and one is lower. If you're working on hearing it more "equally" you could try fading it in, and in free time, and maybe switching to different octaves randomly.
In summary, just because a tritone is 2EDO it doesn't mean that our ear is perceiving it that way. So if my ear is hearing it attracted one way or another I'm not going to think of it as "equal", I'm going to find what made the attraction happen.
Last edited by Ken Valentino 2; 04-03-2017 at 12:26 PM.
For example a #11 could be a 3/TT or it could be 45:32.
when you say hear you do mean perceive like ? does it happens with the same note (on the piano) or is it by bending on the guitar or because this note is played/voiced at one or two octaves higher ?!
Originally Posted by Ken Valentino 2
11:8 is the 4' natural ratio (11th partial) so it may still sound positive and quite consonant though remote from its tonic so it's more likely that way when played octaves higher than the tonic ?
how about 45:32 ?
is it not really the notes played before (ie. the melody) that makes for the more remote/complex perceived ratios rather than how high/low notes are played ?
in other words, it is not only low/high that's responsible for the perceived ratios ? but also open/close and timing and repetition ?
well at least I get how low and open acts positively for chords,
I can understand at a certain minimum how often melody rely on close in time, pitch and tonal numbers..
important : perceived ratios is really a result of the different tendencies and is different than exact tuning ?
a TT wouldn't be equal, one note is higher and one is lower. If you're working on hearing it more "equally" you could try fading it in, and in free time, and maybe switching to different octaves randomly.
because when I listen to the ratios here
it gives exact tunings of ratios that happens to be within the same octave,
I listened to 11:8, 45:32, 21/2=√2 do you hear anything more positive/negative/equal there or do they all sound like a "tritone" but not tuned exactly the same because that's just the point there, but it is different than the concept of perceived ratios that you've been explaining ?
BTW. it seems I hear a single tritone within one octave as a +4 (ie. the bottom note as the tonic) but is it because I like to play four whole tones in a row (lydian) ? now if I play two minor thirds up I don't hear the same tritone as when played one tritone up.
Last edited by anatole; 04-07-2017 at 08:15 PM.
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