Welcome!
Just a few a ground rules first...

Promotion, advertising and link building is not permitted.

If you are keen to learn, get to grips with something with the willing help of one of the net's original musician forums
or possess a genuine willingness to contribute knowledge - you've come to the right place!

Register >

- Close -
Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Notation Question: Dots or ties over bar lines? Why?

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    5

    Notation Question: Dots or ties over bar lines? Why?

    I recently learned that when a note needs to extend over a bar line on a staff, you can technically use either dots or ties, but using dots for this is basically considered obsolete so people usually always use ties to accomplish this. I understand what dotted notes and ties are and what they mean, but I don't see the difference in using one or the other to cross bar lines on a staff.
    Can someone explain this please? Why do people prefer using ties over bar lines, instead of dotted notes?
    Thanks.
    Last edited by bloopaloop; 08-26-2017 at 07:46 PM.

  2. #2
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Dallas Texas
    Posts
    61
    Bar lines signal, to a large extent, something new. New accents occur; old accidentals no longer apply, etc. A tie recognize this explicitly. Generally engraving practice doe not have notes crossing rhythmic sub-divisions through ties. So in 4-4 time, {dotted-quarter, dotted-quarter,quarter} is uncommon; the second quarter has just a dot on its first sub-beat rather than a note. Similarly for a dot crossing the bar line. Normally the previous example would be {dotted-quarter, eighth-tie-quarter, quarter). Dots do not extend notes to a "more highly accented" part of a beat or sub-beat.

    I use the 3-3-2 (eighth note) division of a 4/4 measure so I checked out lots of Latin American music, popular, classical, etc. I always found the tie being used.

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by motherlode View Post

    If you can’t quote a source, please don’t waste my time with a response.
    Sooo, if I post the source will you answer my question then? Because don't want to waste MY time, looking through a 15 minute video for the small part where this was mentioned if it won't get me any closer to the answer.
    Let me know. Thnx.

  4. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by motherlode View Post
    Since you failed to identify the source of the info that is the premise of this thread ... Why not start from the beginning?
    Because you didn't ask nicely.

  5. #5
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by motherlode View Post
    Please...
    Ah, much better. I don't have one.
    But, your kind change of tone, has convinced me to supply the link to the source.
    Not sure if I'm allowed to post something like that here, so check your inbox.

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    5
    Well that was interesting.

    If anyone out there can tell me why it is that people use ties for this instead of dots, I'd be thankful if you're willing to explain the reason.
    Its starting to seem like this is just one of those things that doesn't have a reason, it just is that way, just because it is.
    But if there's an actual reason, please tell me.
    Thank you.
    Last edited by bloopaloop; 08-29-2017 at 08:55 PM.

  7. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by bloopaloop View Post
    I recently learned that when a note needs to extend over a bar line on a staff, you can technically use either dots or ties
    Never heard of dots as a choice in that context. Never in 50 years (on and off) of reading music theory.
    Quote Originally Posted by bloopaloop View Post
    Why do people prefer using ties over bar lines, instead of dotted notes?
    Because ties are correct.
    Because they, like me, have never heard of the dot option.
    Because, if they have heard of that option, they know it's obsolete (as your source says), so they know it's no longer correct (if it ever was).
    Because it looks confusing, it makes no sense according to the rules for notating metre.

    Any of those may apply.

    Why do people prefer spelling words correctly insted ov spelin them rongly?

    motherlode's explanation (if a bit shouty) is excellent.
    Last edited by Jon68; 09-01-2017 at 12:48 PM.

  8. #8
    MMus, MA, PGCE JumpingJack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    303
    I've no idea what's going on between people here..

    But basically, if you've got a note that's too big to fit in a bar, you have to tie it into the next bar. You can't use a dot without changing the time signature.

    So in 4/4 for example, if you've got something on the first three beats and you want a note that lasts two beats but starts on the fourth beat of the bar, it doesn't fit. You could change the time signature to 5/4 OR you fill up the bar and tie the note into the first beat of the next bar.

  9. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by JumpingJack View Post
    I've no idea what's going on between people here..

    But basically, if you've got a note that's too big to fit in a bar, you have to tie it into the next bar. You can't use a dot without changing the time signature.
    That's how I've always understood it too.
    Maybe we need to ask the OP exactly where he "recently learned that when a note needs to extend over a bar line on a staff, you can technically use either dots or ties". How authoritative is that source? (My guess: not very.)

Similar Threads

  1. Notation question
    By rbarata in forum Composition, Arranging & Analysis
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-30-2010, 02:50 PM
  2. Notation Question
    By Rustee in forum Eartraining, Rhythm & Reading
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 07-20-2009, 04:37 PM
  3. Notation Question
    By Jed in forum Composition, Arranging & Analysis
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-10-2006, 08:40 PM
  4. Hi! Rhythm notation question
    By SlowToby in forum Composition, Arranging & Analysis
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 12-28-2005, 04:50 PM
  5. Question about pitch in notation....
    By leppard81 in forum Eartraining, Rhythm & Reading
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-02-2005, 07:55 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •