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Thread: Confusion on intervals,

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  1. #1
    Registered User D2P2S's Avatar
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    Confusion on intervals,

    "Intervals or The Key to Harmonic Understanding" Im currenlty reading this article and I think im getting the concept however Im missing something. My main problem is Im fine when doing any of the excercises from C, however when i switch to any other note it dosent turn out for me.

    Im not sure how many steps/1/2 steps are between each note.

    For example on D it should be like this for majors/minors
    Root--M2----M3----M6----M7----Min2---Min3--Min6--Min7
    d------e-----f#-----b----c#------eb----f-----bb-----c

    However when i do it I end up with
    Root--M2----M3----M6----M7----Min2---Min3--Min6--Min7
    d------e-----f------b------c-------eb------fb----bb-----cb



    Any have a clue where im going wrong?



    Thanks
    David
    Last edited by D2P2S; 11-18-2003 at 09:16 PM.

  2. #2
    i Breathe ... Admin Guni's Avatar
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    Hi D2P2S,

    To me it looks like you miss that there are 1/2 steps between e and f, and b and c.

    If you take this into consideration your maths should be fine: move the f up a step = f#, move the c up a step = c#, .... fb becomes f (fb doesn't really exist in a practical way - it is equal to the note e) - cb becomes c (again, no cb as it is equal to b) ...

    Hope that helps,

    Guni

  3. #3
    Afro-Cuban Grunge-Pop Bongo Boy's Avatar
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    Yes...just remember that there are 2 half-tones (that is, a whole tone) between any two adjacent notes (that is, between any two consecutive notes), EXCEPT b and c, and EXCEPT e and f. Between these two pairs there is only one half-tone. When Guni says a 'step' (in his reply above), he means a HALF-tone, and this is also more often called a "semitone".

    A sharp is one half-step up from the natural note, and a flat is one half step down from the natural note.

    These rules are always true, regardless of anything including what scale you're talking about, what note you 'start' on, etc.

    Welcome to the site. Any questions?
    Last edited by Bongo Boy; 11-18-2003 at 11:35 PM.
    Pulsing the System with Confirmed Nonsense.

  4. #4
    Registered User PAUL C/KX1722's Avatar
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    Hi David … I haven’t really got anything to add to Guni & Bongo Boy’s points - I can’t sleep at the mo so I just thought I’d write out all the intervals in ‘D’ for you. You’ll find in time that you can name, refer to & view these intervals in a number of different ways, but get this info under your belt to start with and you’ll be doing fine.

    root == D
    b2 == Eb (or D#)
    2 == E
    b3 == F
    3 == F# (or Gb)
    4 == G
    b5 == Ab (or G#)
    5 == A
    b6 == Bb (or A#)
    6 == B
    b7 == C
    7 == Db (or C#)

    Just remember, along the lines of what BB pointed out, from the top – D to Eb is a ‘semitone’ and D to E is commonly referred to as a ‘tone’ etc.

    Best of luck … Paul

  5. #5
    Registered User D2P2S's Avatar
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    Im still having trouble computing this out, lemme breakdown my train of thought when trying to do majors/minors on D.

    D-whole-E-1/2-F-Whole-G-Whole-A-Whole-b-1/2-C-whole-D

    D is the perfect root and D is the perfect octave,

    On D 2 1/2 steps would make G the Perfect Fourth, 3 1/2 steps would make A the perfect 5th.

    In the article by Guni it states that
    "in a Major scale everything is Major if it is not Perfect"

    Im a little confused on I guess whats considered a major scale, Is everything here considered major C, D, E, F, G, A, B. ?

    Assuming that D is considered a major scale to me then that would put E as M2 F as M3, B as M6 and C as M7.

    Then this would put Minor2 as Eb, Minor3 as Fb (which is e# aswell and I was told dosent work?) Minor6 would be bb and Minor7 would be cb?

    Im not sure where the F# and C# come in out, I cant see where im losing that 1/2 step to be 1.2 step behind. If anyone can help its much appreciated, I want to make sure I have this theory nailed since a good understanding is needed for other theory.

    Thanks
    David

  6. #6
    Chicks dig me Danster's Avatar
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    Originally posted by D2P2S
    Im still having trouble computing this out, lemme breakdown my train of thought when trying to do majors/minors on D.

    D-whole-E-1/2-F-Whole-G-Whole-A-Whole-b-1/2-C-whole-D

    D is the perfect root and D is the perfect octave,

    On D 2 1/2 steps would make G the Perfect Fourth, 3 1/2 steps would make A the perfect 5th.
    You are correct to this point.

    Edit: OK, on looking at this again, I may see your problem. D-E-F-G-A-B-C is not the D major scale. Major scales can have flats and sharps. In fact the C major scale is the only one which has no flats or sharps. Does that help?
    In the article by Guni it states that
    "in a Major scale everything is Major if it is not Perfect"

    Im a little confused on I guess whats considered a major scale, Is everything here considered major C, D, E, F, G, A, B. ?
    No, in that C major scale, the F and G are a perfect fourth and perfect fifth respectively. Although I forgot why those two intervals are called perfect instead of major. Someone else can help us out there. All of the other intervals in that scale ARE major (M2, M3, M6, M7).
    Assuming that D is considered a major scale to me then that would put E as M2 F as M3, B as M6 and C as M7.
    F# is the M3, C# is the M7, the others are correct. Here are all 12 of the notes of the chromatic (not major) scale, starting from D:
    D - D# - E - F - F# - G - G# - A - A# - B - C - C#
    (I left out the flats for simplicity). The formula for a major scale is W - W - H - W - W - W - H, where W is a whole step (whole step = two half steps = two frets), and H is a half step (half step = one fret). To make a D major scale, start at D, and then apply that whole and half step formula shown above. That is:
    D
    then up a Whole step to
    E (the M2)
    then up a Whole step to
    F# (the M3)
    then up a Half step to
    G (the P4)
    then up a Whole step to
    A (the P5)
    then up a Whole step to
    B (the M6)
    then up a Whole step to
    C# (the M7)
    then up a Half step to
    D (the octave)

    Then this would put Minor2 as Eb,
    yes
    Minor3 as Fb (which is e# aswell and I was told dosent work?)
    No, there is no Fb (in the simplest way of thinking of things). The minor 3 is E. If you know where F is on a keyboard, you'll see that one half step lower than it is E, there is no black key for what would be Fb if it existed.
    Minor6 would be bb and Minor7 would be cb?
    Minor 6 would be Bb (or more correctly A#). And, similar to the E-F situation, there is no Cb (no black key to the left of C on the keyboard). Of course all of these minor intervals you are talking about here are not a part of the D major scale, since all intervals are major or perfect in a major scale.
    Im not sure where the F# and C# come in out, I cant see where im losing that 1/2 step to be 1.2 step behind.
    Seems to me you're having trouble with the E to F issue and the B to C issue. E to F is a half step only, as is B to C.

    Hope that helps, and anyone here is more than welcome to correct my errors if there are some.
    Last edited by Danster; 11-19-2003 at 08:04 PM.
    Peace

  7. #7
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    Hi "D2"
    Lets see if this helps. Below is the "music alphabet", starting on D.
    D , D# , E , F , F# , G , G# , A , A# , B , C , C#
    Notice there is no sharp (or flat ) between E and F, or, B and C.

    Does this help ?
    Mike

    .......Danster beat me to it.........I suppose some folks would call that a chromatic scale !!
    Last edited by mjo; 11-19-2003 at 07:21 PM.

  8. #8
    Experimentalist Koala's Avatar
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    Geez, you people dont leave any questions to be answered anymore! LOL

  9. #9
    Registered User D2P2S's Avatar
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    Thx alot guys I finally figured out what I wasnt doing right, I wasnt using the correct d major scale. Thx again guys

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