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Thread: I always doodle around..... but I always improve too!

  1. #1
    I love Guitar. UltimaRage's Avatar
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    I always doodle around..... but I always improve too!

    Is there anything wrong with doodling around as long as you are improving? Also, I don't use scales to improvise.... I developed the skill to not need scales to solo. Yay me. XD Should I learn some scales anyways? I want to learn theory too, but it all just seems..... difficult to grasp.
    ~UltimaRage~

  2. #2
    Registered User Unhorizon's Avatar
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    Just curious, when you improvise do you use a backing track or do you just play around on your guitar. Do you use a metrenome or drum machine? If you aren't using these things while you improvise, you probably can't improvise. You have to know scales to improvise, its not a decision you make(unless you decide not to improvise), you just CAN'T improvise without playing some sort of scale. I guess you could just hit random notes or play by ear, but one day, when your improvising at a gig in front of a couple hundred people(or more) and you hit fret 9 on the g string instead of 8, the whole building will cringe because you didn't know scales.

  3. #3
    I love Guitar. UltimaRage's Avatar
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    I just know what sounds like what and where on the fretboard. I play with backing tracks, and pop CDs I like in the CD player and improvise to them, and sometimes I even improvise to music on TV..... and I don't use any scales. You seem very against the idea of improvising without scales..... I practice everyday, and I just have faith and determination in myself. Determination is enough. The mind is an amazing thing. IF you tell yourself that you don't make mistakes, with time, you won't make mistakes. When I improvise, I just link my playing directly to how I am feeling at that moment, and it works great. You don't have to have scales to improvise, and you don't have to be in the right key to improvise. Look at Jimi Hendrix. He changed his soloing key often. As long as it sounds good, then anything goes.
    ~UltimaRage~

  4. #4
    IbreatheMusic Author Bizarro's Avatar
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    What exactly do you practice?

    Do you have any soundclips?
    -Bizarro
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    Hey dude!!!

    Hey Ultimate,

    I have never really specifically practiced certain scales or techniques and all i ever seem to do is noodle. Yet i feel that i posses a good ear that enables me to be able to play what i hear in my head with relativ ease...........since i have not spent time learning scales and have just noodled my way thorugh a couple of years of playin......my technique is pretty good and i can sweep, tap and play fast alternate picking runs probably like urself and a large number of other members,,,,, I simply go for whatever sounds good to me..But i wondered if u ever find urself simply playing the same licks and runs over and over again? or do u feel limited when it comes to playing runs over a large range of frets>

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    Wink

    you donīt need to know scales to solo, eddie van halen didnīt know nothing about scales besides that thereīs 12 notes on the guitar. and he did just fine.

    but of course, there is only eddie so it's not a bad idea to know some theory.

  7. #7
    IbreatheMusic Author Bizarro's Avatar
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    If you think Eddie doesn't know any scales... He took music theory in college for crying out loud! He knew some theory at some time in his life. He's from a family of professional musicians!
    -Bizarro
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  8. #8
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    well he knew some theory, but he probably didnīt think about scales when he was soloing.

    This is what he said in one interview.

    "I never find the scales, because thereīs no point. there are 12 notes in the cromatic scale, and I donīt need someone else to tell me how to mix those 12 notes up.

  9. #9
    Resident Curmudgeon szulc's Avatar
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    Nonsense

    Everyone uses scales.
    There are no if's ands or but's.
    The chromatic scale is a scale.

    Playing stuff and not knowing where it is coming from and not playing (using) scales are two completely different things.
    What you guys are saying is you play by the seat of your pants.
    In a perfect world where we would know how every note on the fingerboard would sound before we touched it we could think melodies and instantly play them. My contenetion is that if you can instantly play anything in your head, you don't have very interesting ideas in your head. Or you are not listening to the right stuff.
    When you solo you are going to use some kind of reference to guide you to be able to:
    1. Play in Key
    2. Play interesting melodies
    3. Not hit bad notes (or at least recover to good notes quickly)

    That reference could be some kind of physical road map of "little black dots" or could be remembered movments of your hands. In either of these cases you are using scales and patterns.
    "Listen to the Spaces Between the sounds."
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  10. #10
    I love Guitar. UltimaRage's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Bizarro
    What exactly do you practice?

    Do you have any soundclips?
    I practice... playing the guitar! I really don't know how to answer that question... I just always make stuff up, improvise to CDs, and just noodle around. I also have been working on a song, but I always forget things I've played.
    I don't have any recent soundclips, but I'll post one tomorrow.


    Originally posted by VitoBrata
    Hey Ultimate,

    I have never really specifically practiced certain scales or techniques and all i ever seem to do is noodle. Yet i feel that i posses a good ear that enables me to be able to play what i hear in my head with relativ ease...........since i have not spent time learning scales and have just noodled my way thorugh a couple of years of playin......my technique is pretty good and i can sweep, tap and play fast alternate picking runs probably like urself and a large number of other members,,,,, I simply go for whatever sounds good to me..But i wondered if u ever find urself simply playing the same licks and runs over and over again? or do u feel limited when it comes to playing runs over a large range of frets>
    Nah, I always try to mix up what I play so I don't play the same licks and runs repeatedly. I always try to come up with new sounds, new ways to express myself while improvising.

    Originally posted by szulc
    Everyone uses scales.
    There are no if's ands or but's.
    The chromatic scale is a scale.

    Playing stuff and not knowing where it is coming from and not playing (using) scales are two completely different things.
    What you guys are saying is you play by the seat of your pants.
    In a perfect world where we would know how every note on the fingerboard would sound before we touched it we could think melodies and instantly play them. My contenetion is that if you can instantly play anything in your head, you don't have very interesting ideas in your head. Or you are not listening to the right stuff.
    When you solo you are going to use some kind of reference to guide you to be able to:
    1. Play in Key
    2. Play interesting melodies
    3. Not hit bad notes (or at least recover to good notes quickly)

    That reference could be some kind of physical road map of "little black dots" or could be remembered movments of your hands. In either of these cases you are using scales and patterns.
    WHOA.......... I never said that I could instantly play anything in my head...... I just simply said that I just play and don't think about it. I know that technically, I'm always using scales, I know that, but I didn't actually sit down and memorize them, per se.
    Last edited by UltimaRage; 03-01-2004 at 03:19 AM.
    ~UltimaRage~

  11. #11
    IbreatheMusic Author Bizarro's Avatar
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    UltimaRage,

    There is a definite disconnect between what you are saying and what I am hearing! The basic terminology and meanings of the words we use are different.

    I'm a very technical person by nature (terminology, definitions, theory, etc) so I think I'm misinterpreting your words since they mean different things to you than they do to me... It's all becoming clear now Slowly but surely


    I think most people learn patterns and shapes, and some people even learn the names of them, and then learn how to use them. After a while you don't think about playing in the same way a beginner does and you just "play".

    edit: Just looked at UltimaRage's profile. I've been playing guitar longer than UR's been alive! I'm getting old!
    Last edited by Bizarro; 03-01-2004 at 05:31 AM.
    -Bizarro
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  12. #12
    Registered User Spin 2513's Avatar
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    Hey guys ,

    this is a familiar discussion of "who knows what scales."

    my cousin , got tickets to Lynch/Malmsteen the other day , both of which i've seen about 10 times

    one thing about Lynch i think is funny , is that He actually said in Guitar Player Magazine , he thought of the Guitar as one big scale , and doesn't know theory , and decieded to take lessons , at GIT to figure out , whats going on !This was when the Back for the Attack album was released . Which has the whole "Mr.Scary " thing in overdrive .

    Along these lines are Viv Campbell of Dio , who also blasted , ripping riffs, and later took a more schooled approach .


    My point is , when you play on riffs and Songs in Straight Minor , Aeolian Mode, like in most Radio Songs , you can play any note in that key .
    If it's "A Minor" any note from "Cmaj patterns "all over the fret board will work , in what ever "Sequences ", you want to play , 2eds,3eds , 4ths, 6es, 9s. Tapping , Arps , Blues rock , what ever , the tonalities is open , especially if its Root and 5th Power Chords , no 7ths .

    When you add 7th chords you become more restricted , as to say , the chord dictates to you .

    But with most metal , like Ac/dC "Back in Black " , (E and A Minor Pent )Metallica "Reload" (C Maj/A Minor Aeolian ) Dokken or Dio (Sraight E Minor/GMaj , and sometimes A minor Aeolian/C Maj ) you can solo the Big Scale , every note on the fret board , in all positions .It's wide open .

    Last edited by Spin 2513; 03-01-2004 at 09:23 PM.
    Play Loud

  13. #13
    I love Guitar. UltimaRage's Avatar
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    Here is the first soundclip I recorded. I'll post another one in a second....
    Attached Files Attached Files
    ~UltimaRage~

  14. #14
    I love Guitar. UltimaRage's Avatar
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    Here is the second one.

    EDIT: Now that I listen to those recordings, I now realize that I should've warmed up first..... Not my best improvising. I'll post some of me warmed up sometime in the next couple of days. XD I love guitar.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by UltimaRage; 03-02-2004 at 01:36 AM.
    ~UltimaRage~

  15. #15
    Registered User Spin 2513's Avatar
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    Ha ! Nice Ultama , that last one had a Riff that Goes A, C , F# , A,C,D E. . .
    My cousin Bob ,had a song we used to Jam on with that Riff in the Chorus .
    The verse was , Asus, C , Dsus, F , then A sus, C, F ,G , over and over , and that Riff .
    Brings back memories

    Your a Good Metal Rhythm player/writer , i was digging that first clip , alot .
    I'd like to here that with , just the rhythm , and a "Solo Section"
    Just for the lead guitar . Very "minor" lead approach

    I Jam for Ideas ,too. Sometimes , on a Tape i'll have a good two Riffs , ican Make into a Song , A matter of Fact , i just found , two good ones , check it out .
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Play Loud

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