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Thread: My opinion on shredding

  1. #1
    Registered User ReinierK's Avatar
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    My opinion on shredding

    Hiya,

    I might not make friends with this post, but it's not an attack, just an opinion

    I personally admire people who can rip solo's out like it's a piece of cake, honoustly. BUT, I always miss something with big solo players... I always miss some kind of emotion (it's not that they don't play with emotion, it's just an other type of emotion).

    I personally admire Matthew Bellamy of MUSE. And I actually don't even know why He has a horrible technique (like barré fretting chords with his pinky and stuff ), but he puts a rather nice amount of emotion in his playing. He might not be any good at playing 'solo's', but he always has catchy riffs, even some very uptempo one's.

    I don't know, I rather be playing like that, then playing like EVH... Anyone agree, or do I just have to hide from now on?

    Cheers!

    B.t.w.: it might be the singing too... I sing too, and I feel much more free while singen than playing guitar, this might be an explanation why I don't really like shredding.

  2. #2
    Senior Citizen Cuno's Avatar
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    Hi!

    This matter has been discussed very thoroughlly here on the forums, search for 'emotion shred' or something and you might find some interesting viewpoints.

    Ok, it may be easy to forget about the 'art' of music when you're up to your ears in theory and/or technique. Perspective is a good thing. So is tolerance. And even technical abilites. And food and stuff...but i digress Search the forums.

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    I think Matt Bellamy is a really talented guy. He obviously has a really strong background in theory to be able to come up with those arrangements and chord progressions. Also, I don't think he has really shown what he's capable of on guitar yet. "Stockholm Syndrome," has some pretty cool guitar playing in it, even if it's not that technically difficult.

    Having said all that, it's pretty obvious that Muse are a song-oriented band. I think that makes a comparison between Bellamy and Vai, or whoever, kind of pointless. They aren't really shooting for the same thing, and that goes for any band - Johnny Greenwood, Adam Jones, Billy Corgan, Dave Navarro, Mike Einziger et al are not out to achieve the same thing that a shredder is going for, which is the deepest exploration of their instrument possible - they are supporting songs. Both perspectives have value, and I don't think that they are necessarily in oposition to one another.

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    You are correct when you say that some shredding is pretty emotionless. Then again, there are tons of songs without solos that are emotionless. What makes a song good depends totally on what the listener values. I love VanHalen. Not huge Vai fan. Love Satriani. Not a big Yngwie fan. There are some shredders that I love, and others I am not really big on. That is not to say that one is better than another, just that some have what I value and others don't really have much of what I am looking for. My favorite guitarists are Andy Timmons, Nuno Bettencourt, Reb Beach, Richie Kotzen. Reb Beach isn't up to the technical abilities of the others I mentioned, but he is really good and has that "something" that makes him stand out to me. I used to be a huge John Petrucci fan, but as I change so do my tastes(I won't call it maturing since that would be disrespectful to what Petrucci does). He is still a favorite, but he has slipped a little as my tastes change. I guess I am more into melodic playing that has a strong blues influence. Others may not be able to stand these players. That is why there are so many types of music. Not everybody likes the same things. No big deal. Get what you like and play what you like. There is an audience out there for it so do it.

  5. #5
    I love Guitar. UltimaRage's Avatar
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    Probably the most emotional shredders I've listened to would probably have to be Greg Howe, Jason Becker, Richie Kotzen and most definately Tony Macalpine.
    ~UltimaRage~

  6. #6
    Laiho's heir guitarist wild_child's Avatar
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    i think that matt bellamy's playing is overrated. good nonetheless, but magazines like kerrang! are marketing him as some sort of technical master which he is not, he uses far too many effects for my tastes, his guitar often sounds like a synthesyser.
    i must agree that he is talented - i mean he is a good pianist as well and has a pretty impressive vocal range (although why does he put distortion behind his voice..? i think thats cheating a bit)
    but now people keep asking me stuff like 'play some muse, their stuff is so hard to do' and i'm just thinking 'who told them that?' well its the media obviously. you know, the amount of muse i have seen on tv in the past 6 months is rediculous.. but i guess its whats in demand so thats what i'll get.
    however who i think is underrated is muse's bassist! he is the backbone, playing all the hooks and stuff while matt goes off on a synth bender. oh well, thats the way theyre marketed so thats the way people will see them i guess.

    i saw deicide on scuzz the other day though, that i was very happy about, the song 'scars of the crucifix' i think it was. that song has it all; tapping, sweeping etc, maybe now the kids will see what it is to be a technical master of their guitar - whether they like it or not is up to them (or up to what the tv tells them)

    but anyway yes; technical skill and musical talent are two very different things, but you gotta agree that one compliments the other and the same the other way round.
    the simplest idea is equally good as the most complex, but without feeling both are meaningless.
    "Remember, it's all good, everything goes and there ain't no damned rules or boundaries. So get off! Tear it a fresh ***, tear it hard, rip gaping holes in it! Make tracks, leave marks!

    "forever stronger than all" - Dimebag Darrell

  7. #7
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    Originally posted by debaser
    I think Matt Bellamy is a really talented guy. He obviously has a really strong background in theory to be able to come up with those arrangements and chord progressions.
    Go and get yourself a recording of Rachmaninov's Piano Concerto No.3 in D minor, and listen to the first theme in the first movement. Then go and listen to "Megalomania" (final track on Origin Of Symmetry). You might be pleasantly surprised (in Homer Simpson voice!).

    Then go and listen a bit further into that first movement, and you'll hear something which reminds you of Space Dementia for some mysterious unknown reason.

    And the thing that pisses me off about all that is I've only discovered Rachmaninov's music after hearing copied bits in Muse music, which I got to love.

    M.B. is not technically a great guitarist. As he said himself "I gave up doing exercises when I was 16 or something" and "I'm good at some things, pretty crap at others".

    He can do fancy crossover arpeggios on piano, but the "fancy" list pretty much ends there!. It's all he does really.


    Liking Shred is just a taste. I would choose Muse music over it anyday. I only listen to Paul Gilbert and Malmsteen because I want to see what's possible because I want to be able to do all that stuff, regardless of whether I'll use it or not (with my band). But I'm focusing on technical playing, not speed playing. Speed is technical, but technical is not speed. Slow(ish) arpeggios are technical on guitar, because it's a specific technique. And it's something I'm striving to do; fuse technical playing with standard UK rock music (it's an ongoing problem with my band that we're compared to Muse, mainly because of my classical influences, and we also like heavy riffs!).
    Shred is just a tiny aspect of the whole musical spectrum, which is why it tires out pretty quickly.

  8. #8
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    And about Chris Wolstenholme; he's a superb bassist, and really underated. When they played here in Dublin last week he was doing some great basswork, including a solo bit with tapping and stuff.

    In general he's a solid bassist. I saw a little clip of the recording of their song "Falling Away With You" (also here in Ireland!), and he plays an arpeggio bit in the choruses, playing with total ease and fluency.

    And also, I can't bop my head for 5 seconds without getting a headache. He does it for the whole damn 90+ minutes of thier gigs!

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    I'd like to put in my 2 cents. I was watching the latest G3 Denver Concert and I while i found myself in awe with the proficiency and technical abilities of Yngwie, I quickly became bored with his playing. I will never be able to play that fast, but I don't desire to because it sounds repetitious(meaning-he knows just one speed-ULTRAFAST). On the other hand Satriani and Vai showed much more of a varied style and shredded only when the time was right for it.
    I think that emotion is relative to the listener. Any artist who truly can be characterized as a "shredder" has an emotional level we mortals will never reach because we don't spend 12+ hours a day practicing our chops-thats emotion. However, the effects and imagery impressed upon the listeners ear plays a big part in determining how "emotional" a player "sounds" and not necessarily "is".

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    I'd like to put in my 2 cents. I was watching the latest G3 Denver Concert and I while i found myself in awe with the proficiency and technical abilities of Yngwie, I quickly became bored with his playing. I will never be able to play that fast, but I don't desire to because it sounds repetitious(meaning-he knows just one speed-ULTRAFAST). On the other hand Satriani and Vai showed much more of a varied style and shredded only when the time was right for it.
    I think that emotion is relative to the listener. Any artist who truly can be characterized as a "shredder" has an emotional level we mortals will never reach because we don't spend 12+ hours a day practicing our chops-thats emotion. However, the effects and imagery impressed upon the listeners ear plays a big part in determining how "emotional" a player "sounds" and not necessarily "is".

  11. #11
    Registered User ReinierK's Avatar
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    I think you guys are pretty right about the classical 'copying' of Matthew, but he does far more than just that

    Especially on the new album he has some serious piano going on...

    And for the distortion behind his voice part: he only does it on some songs (and even then, not always)... He has a magnificent range (read: into the high notes), but he kinda lacks the low notes...

    Like, I can almost sing as high as him, but I can sing almost an octave lower than him...

    Well... I still adore the technicians as much as the 'talented' guys... Just wished I was one of them

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    Yeah, I'm familiar with Rachmaninov's piano concerto No. 3. I got interested in it after seeing that movie "Shine," about the pianist David Helfgott. I never made the Muse connection, maybe because the chord progressions that they use seem to show up in much more modern contexts than Rachmaninov(ie. Radiohead songs). Nonetheless, it does take a solid understanding of chord resolution to steal something like that, as opposed to a Nirvana song.

    When thinking about guitarists who play for the band, particularly from the UK, I can't help thinking that Brian May is the perfect example of someone how blends virtuosic technique with a strong(read: unbelievable) sense of melody. He's not a shredder per se, but he also never reveals his limitations, while still producing some pretty impressive stuff on occasion.

    I'm also not sure that we know how low Matthew Bellamy can sing, to say for sure that someone can sing a whole octave below him. Just a thought.

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    I love shredding and I think it can be quite emotional, and I also think Yngwie is one of the most emotional of the technically fluent
    guitarists and not not all of his work is blazing with speed, some of it is slow, emotional and very melodic like Overture 1383 and I forgot to mention Randy Rhoads, he is just as emotional as slash
    in most of his work while still retaining a technical aspect to his playing.
    shredding is the best

  14. #14
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    But the Rachmaninov chord progression AND melody from that first movement IS copied by Matt Bellamy and used in their song "Megalomania". Of course there's no way to prove it, but what is proof? There are far far too many variables for it to be a coincidence.

    About the Rachmaninov style progression used in Radiohead songs (and others), this isn't true at all. What makes it a "Rachmaninov" style progression is use of inversions, diminished chords, chromatic basslines, extended chords...etc. Radiohead songs are mainly just plain old rock basic chords. Sure, there are some inversions etc. in Radiohead songs, but it's just not part of their style and music, probably because they run into it by chance.

  15. #15
    Registered User Oliver Maison's Avatar
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    Regarding Rachmaninov and other classical composer/performers, it seems to me that the only instrument to be attack as being 'flash' is the electric guitar I've rarely heard it about other instruments (I have obviosly heard it just not as often).

    Violinist can do some crazy things and no one seems to mind, same with Saxaphone, have you ever accused a Sax player to showing off? Piano is the only other one I find gets a lot of stick.

    But why? I mean is there somthing wrong with playing well, Sure you might not like it but and thats ok but when people (Not saying any one here is) start saying it's pointless or emiontless weirds me out a bit, The listner may not think it is, but thats just taste, like I think custard is horrible, does'nt means it pointless.

    When I'm sitting around playing the Piano, and peopel are standing around I always like to play the best I can. And when someone say "Show off" it really annyes me, "Sorry do you want me to play badly?".

    I'm not sure what my point is and I'm taking a long time explain it but it's strange.

    Alot of the time people are focused on streotype, such as if I play Blues I'll be more emotional, or if I play punk I'll be more fun and aggresive, And they don't focus on actually being emoitional and/or aggresive. Mozart is very technical yet boring, Tchaicovsky is very technical and I think he playing is beutiful, and aggresive. Also bands like Led zeppelin were'nt really clever, Some of there songs were, but compared to say Yes or ELP there were'nt but they still rocked, There solos were really amazing amazing either. Then bands like Bon jovi and Euopre etc were playing big flash solos and people now a days say oh Zepplin rock way harder than Jovi, which is true but they think it has, in part, to do with flash solos. I think thats wrong not having solos does'nt make your band good, being good does. If Page had played like Vai they would still rule, and same goes if had played like any of us.It is is'nt about that they were flash or not flash either way they would have been great, so having a flashness does'nt make you bad either.

    Sorry this has taking alot of space but I'm a little bored.

    Still the question remains "Can we Rock 'and' Think and the same time?
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