Derivative Vs. Parallel

[DepressedNazgul]

I want to know everything about these two ways of thinking: How do you learn and practice each one, what is the thought process, what are the pros and cons.

Also, I want to know if there's some hybrid approach, that combines both... Because I have a hard time learning each one of them. When I try parallel I'm stuck with learning zillions of patterns for every single mode, with derivative I'm stuck with learning to connect modes to the parent scale...

P.S Don't tell me about the Lydian Chromatic, it's not what I'm looking for!

[szulc]

I am not sure what you are asking here.
WHen you say derivitive are you suggesting using modes diatonic to a particular scale ? When you say parallel are you suggesting you play based on each chord?
In jazz you will have no choice but to play over each chord.

[RandyEllefson]

I don't understand this question either..... Perhaps tell us what you mean?

[DepressedNazgul]

I'm talking about how to approach each chord. When I see Cm7, should I think "C Dorian" or "Bb Major, emphasizing Cm chord tones"?

[Cuno]

Do what's working for you. Derative is easier to start with, IMO.
So, i guess; pros of derative is that is easier to learn, and pros of parallel is that you look on the mode in it's own musical context.


Edit:
Derative is looking at D dorian as C major starting from the 2nd degree.
Parallel is looking at D dorian as D major with b3 and b7.

[szulc]

Derative is looking at D dorian as C major starting from the 2nd degree. Parallel is looking at D dorian as D major with b3 and b7.

If this what is meant by his definition then there is really no difference. T some point you forget all about this and think about chord tones and tension, then even later you forget everything and play.
I think it is more useful to build a table of the active tensions for a chord change and try to connect them using your ear. Then go back and ANALYZE what you did in terms of modes or scales with alterations. You can then form some rules that work for your style, but remember that it is all about what it sounds like not what scale it came from or how you decided to analyze that scale or collection of tones.

[mjo]

quote:
"I think it is more useful to build a table of the active tensions for a chord change"

Hey szulc, what do you mean by "active tensions" ?
I'm, generally familiar with tensions but this implies something new & exciting

Thanks
:Mike

[szulc]

I would consider 'active' tensions as the tensions which are resolved by tensions on the following chord (usually by 1/2 step or whole step), but I would generally omit root and 5th. So 3rd, 7th, 9th etc... depending on the types of chords used in the change.

[RandyEllefson]

Interesting. Apparently I think in terms of "modified parallel". To me, all modes are basically major or minor, so I compare everything that way.

For example: Dorian is minor with a raised 6th. Mixolydian is major with a flat 7. In the latter case, this is especially important, because the minor seven eliminates the leading tone (major seven) that is so important to the V-I chord progression.

Every time people start talking about derivative (which I've always called relative) modes, I have absolutely no clue with they are talking about.