technique, speed etc.

[Rizla]

Who told you that

[Andrea79]

Who told you that

Talking to me? I'm into biomedical engineering, I deal with physiology every day.

[asdf]

There's a genetical limit, given by the speed a signal from your brain can flow thru your neural system... you can improve to that point, but after that, there's no exercise that can improve your speed more... maybe with pills, or getting rewired, lol.

I guess that's what I meant, thanks. Even if some people here don't agree on this - just keep it in mind. When you reach that point it's up to you either to accept it or to keep going on and wasting your time trying to improve something you can't.

Torsten also made a good point. If you pass a certain speed just for the sake of being the fastest guy on this planet sooner or later synchronisation gets out of the window and basically you're only procuding a blur of notes or a noise.

[forgottenking2]

That's very interesting Andrea. I had always thought that, even though there is a neuronal limit, it was way beyond what muscles could do... But then again I only did 2 years of med-school and didn't get to specialty stuff (I would've gone for psychiatry anyways ).
I still think that it is no excuse for not practicing, I do know for a fact that there are some (tons of) gray areas when it comes to neurons and the SNC (is it CNS in English?), and I believe that just like you can train your memory to retain a lot of information with minimum exposure (try studying a 500 page paper overnight Med-school does that to you) you can train your body to move faster (again I do not believe Speed=Good, but I don't like to hear "you/I can't do this"). While training for martial arts not only your flexibility strenght and reflexes improve but also your overal speed (eye coordination, awareness) and I think the same can be done when it comes to playing an instrument. There are LOTS of violinists who can "shred" but they don't make a big deal about it, 'cause speed is just a way to get somewhere. They are busy with other issues such as intonation (applicable to bending an vibrato in guitar), articulation, and other interpretation tools (I'm talking about classical violinists). Now most of us here add improvisation and composition to our list of needed skills... that gives us a lot more to work on.

Anyways, this HUGE post just reiterates what has been said already: It CAN be done, but what for? Speed doesn't make great music.

With that I once again sign off.

Regards,

[Andrea79]

Wait... before giving up, you should be sure of what your limits are (and that's impossible to tell). Maybe you are just practicing the exercises the wrong way and some advice from a speed picker could help you improve, but I hardly think that if for 3 years you have been playing 16th notes @ 210 bpm and you see no improvement one morning you'd wake up finding you an play 16th @ 250bpm... anyway, keeping on doing your exercise for speedpicking might not help you to improve any further, but surely would help you maintain the results you have achieved over the time.
Ciao


EDIT
@forgottenking...
LOL did you read my mind?

[ReinierK]

The nice thing is: you don't really have a physical limit.
Nature itself cannot be approached by theory or math in any way.

I won't deny that the increases will be relatively small and even unnoticable, but it's not true that the human body has a limit.

Sure, one person can (after years of training) sprint 100 meters in 10 seconds. An other person might achieve only 12.3 second, still, both persons can break their PR's, even if it's only by milliseconds.

But then again, there are many factors, which can't be 'writen down'. If you've slept bad, it might affect your playing aswell...

Fact is: training will improve your skills, it's up to you where you want to go. I can imagine it might be very fun to be able to play very fast whenever you feel like it, that way, playing slower will be easier...

I'm slow, very slow... I can't reach 16th's in 144 bpm... (which, btw, is 10 picks/sec and therefore a bit too fast to be pleasant to hear)... But then again, I'm not aiming for that

[forgottenking2]

LOL Andrea, You know what they say: "Great minds... "

[Andrea79]

LOL Andrea, You know what they say: "Great minds... "

LOL @ great minds!

[Priest Becker]

Genetics have been wrong before look at jason becker his genetics gave him a disese and he overcame it and its terminal. Genetics you might not be able to break out of but you can certinly bend them alot. People look at limits too much and belive in science too much when they dont relize the world around them can be shaped how ever they feel it should if they wanted it to. You cant change sand but you can "bend" it in a sense into glass. In the same way you can increase your speed to what ever you want to (of course thier is a limit but everyone can reach the same limit) Its like saying that some people cant pass a certin class in school because thier genetics wont let them. It's because people tell them that and they belive that. The power of the mind is much more powerful than statistics. People break these statistics day after day. To say thier ARE indeed limits is to give up. Its just a cheep most used excuse in the world. People who belive their are limits are probley some of the weekest people in the world when it comes to areas such as this because its the same as giving up or being a quiter. No offense to anyone not everyone WANTS to be fast and in that sense your not realy a quiter if you dont want to be and just stay at what ever speed you like but those of you who want to go faster and people tell you you cant cause of genetics and you stop trying then your a quiter.

[YjMShred]

Most Retarded Thread Ever

[Andrea79]

I'm thinking it's starting to be one of the most retarded posts for sure. Anyway, I don't want to turn it into a physiology lesson or something... but, to anyone thinking human body has no limits... well, would you believe someone lifting, dunno, 5 tons? Me not. As I don't believe anyone moving is wrist 2000 times per minute for a number of reason... if not, what's the point of Marvel and Dc Comics? LOL

[Slaindude]

As a scientist i must had that, genetics do not limit the human body, its the human body that limits the genetics. We evolve the same way a guitar player can evolve, and the gene evolve with what you do and what choice you make. Then, your children grow up with these genes but they have also that power to change, to develop an unknown talent for example, then comes evolution of the human body and etc etc etc. If there ever was a limit, humans would still be what we were thousands and thousands years ago. Evolution makes us grow, evolution, withtout any boundries. Only choices. Those who believe in science like if it was a religion are stupid. Science is not and will never be religion, science is only facts and constation. You make an experience, you observe something you try to give your best shot at explaining how. then you try to prove it and finally if everything follow the same pattern, if every experience you do seemed to follow the same rule, then your theory shall be good for now and for what we know now.

Its the same thing when it comes to technique and everything, of course not everyone is born with the same amount of talent but you can sure change it. I believe there is no possible limit of speed, as long as you work for it. Let say you work one hour a day to improve speed. Allright, after a while, you moved up to 210 bpm for example. Then you want to go higher, then you need to practice even more. The faster you play, the tougher it gets. Are you ready to practice 20 hours a day to became the fastest player alive ? if not, don't even say that there is a limit, only cause you're not willing to work enough for your goal. 20 hours looks stupid as an example, but its true nonetheless.

[Priest Becker]

Slaindude said exactly what i was meaning to say i didnt mean to make it sound as though we dont have limits(although i said that) but i didnt know how to explain it. Genetics dont limit you and they change thats what we call evolution. And it dosent take 50 million years for it to occur everytime but it does take time(hence practicing).

[schematics]

It's no problem to be able to play 16th's at 800 bpm, you just have to figure out how to cross a human and a drill.

[Priest Becker]

Not to sound like I'm putting anyone down but 400 bpm is as fast as you can go befor its one solid stream of sound that sounds like it has no seperation.