Stevie Ray Vaughn or Jimi Hendrix

[wiechfreak]

Well how do you mean? Technically? Goose-bump-raising-ability? Originality? Stage presence? All of the above?

My favorite SRV tune is Hendrix's Voodoo Chile (Slight Return), and I'll just leave it at that.

Which reminds me, I've heard a lot of people call it voodoo child instead of voodoo chile and have found both on a google search. I always thought it was child unti lI started hearing chile all the time? So whicvh is it?

[Bizarro]

Voodoo Child... I looked it up in ASCAP... www.ascap.com

[TheJeffinator]

except that Dream Theater's music is boring pisspoor prog rock and a classic example of technical wizardry for its own sake being pointless. Back to SRV and JH. JH edges it as he had better songs.

I know this quote is old, but I couldn't hold back on this one...Anyone who says that DT is boring and pisspoor is probably either allergic to heaviness or blindly insulting anything less than thirty years old. Technical wizardry can be self-indulgent if it doesn't add to the music, but people who shut out music based on the musicians' chops is only blinding themselves. Petrucci is one of the most melodic, expressive, and talented guitarists on the rock scene, and he's one of the best out there as far as playing expressively and fast at the same time - listen to Awake, Metropolis Pt. II, or Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence if you don't believe me (but first you'll have to stop judging albums by the copyright date on the back of the album).

Rock On,
The Jeffinator

[ROGUE_T]

Technical wizardry can be self-indulgent if it doesn't add to the music, but people who shut out music based on the musicians' chops is only blinding themselves. Petrucci is one of the most melodic, expressive, and talented guitarists on the rock scene, and he's one of the best out there as far as playing expressively and fast at the same time - listen to Awake, Metropolis Pt. II, or Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence if you don't believe me

Totally agree with the above!
On a different note, The Jeffinator what did u think of the 'Liquid Tension Experiment' songs email me with opinions if u like..doesnt really fit in this thread

[Bizarro]

It's all an opinion. Boring to one person, super exciting to the next. Emotion to one, bland and uninspired to the next person. No competitions, just opinions.

[BornToShred]

except that Dream Theater's music is boring pisspoor prog rock and a classic example of technical wizardry for its own sake being pointless.

I agree completely. Except for the prog-rock part. DT is metal.

[debaser]

I know this quote is old, but I couldn't hold back on this one...Anyone who says that DT is boring and pisspoor is probably either allergic to heaviness or blindly insulting anything less than thirty years old. Technical wizardry can be self-indulgent if it doesn't add to the music, but people who shut out music based on the musicians' chops is only blinding themselves. Petrucci is one of the most melodic, expressive, and talented guitarists on the rock scene, and he's one of the best out there as far as playing expressively and fast at the same time - listen to Awake, Metropolis Pt. II, or Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence if you don't believe me (but first you'll have to stop judging albums by the copyright date on the back of the album).

Rock On,
The Jeffinator

I respect your right to love DT, and I know that a lot of other people feel the same way. I, personally, can't find much good about their songwriting. I've tried to get into them over and over, but between the juvenile lyrics and pointless odd meters/solos, it just doesn't grab me. That is just my opinion, although I will add that it couldn't have less to do with the copyright date

[TheJeffinator]

I respect your right to love DT, and I know that a lot of other people feel the same way. I, personally, can't find much good about their songwriting. I've tried to get into them over and over, but between the juvenile lyrics and pointless odd meters/solos, it just doesn't grab me. That is just my opinion, although I will add that it couldn't have less to do with the copyright date

I respect that completely, my problem is not with people who don't like complicated stuff in their music but people who use generic terms like 'piss-poor' that say nothing about their opinions but that they think they're 'piss-poor'. Those kind of statements do nothing to construct a useful discussion, they only alienate both sides needlessly.

I would, however, like to know what lyrics you consider 'juvenile'. I would agree that there's no Lennon-McCartney-style chemistry but I think a lot of them are very well written. Then again, I wouldn't say that about the newest or the first album...

Also, for BornToShred, if their influences, movements, and concepts aren't 'prog-rock' enough for you, what is? Just because they don't sound identical to Yes, Genesis, ELP, King Crimson, etc... doesn't mean they aren't prog. It *is* possible to fuse together metal and prog, and they do it very well. Prog has been having some bad times lately, but can you really say they won't go down as a great prog band, if not the legends of our time?

Rock On,
The Jeffinator

[Guila]

Dream Theater is classified by the AMG (All Music Guide) as Progressive Metal... Ain't that perfect?

[TheJeffinator]

I frankly couldn't care less about AMG, and I'm guessing a lot of people feel the same way. They are set apart from 'standard' metal in that they are influenced as much as (if not more) by classical and jazz music as blues (the main source for early rock's inspiration), and are able to successfully write songs that go through many different movements and are incredibly harmonically intricate, while still maintaining familiarity, which is more in tune with Bach or Beethoven than Zeppelin or Cream (not that there's anything wrong with them, jazz and classical influences just provide more complexity in their music). You could go on and on about ELP and Genesis and Rush and early Pink Floyd and what-have-you, but it's possible to be prog without sounding like PATGOD or BSS.

Rock On,
The Jeffinator

[debaser]

I respect that completely, my problem is not with people who don't like complicated stuff in their music but people who use generic terms like 'piss-poor' that say nothing about their opinions but that they think they're 'piss-poor'. Those kind of statements do nothing to construct a useful discussion, they only alienate both sides needlessly.

Ok, I understand your point. However, I have to say - I enjoy many complicated forms of music(Coltrane, Stravinsky, Bartok, Bach, Reich, Zappa to name only a few); I just don't like DT. Portnoy's lyrics in particular are juvenile- not in the sense that they discusss juvenile subjects; they are just poorly written and seem to rely on rhyme schemes(in my observation). I can give you specific examples if it is really important to you.

Also, regarding your remark that they are more influenced by jazz and classical than blues, I have to point out that jazz comes from the blues. If you listen to early Louis Armstrong, Jelly Roll Morton etc. most of the songs are written in a 12 bar I-IV-V format. If you mean that they are influenced by Al Dimeola and Jan Hammer, that might be a more applicable point, although it doesn't necessarily say anything good about DT.

[adityabarve]

nothing doing man...
dt rocks...with ease, whoever has doubts or objections..pls check out metropolis or awake...the melodies and harmonies with all the heaviness combind is cool! no other words.. those guys are awesome!

[debaser]

nothing doing man...
dt rocks...with ease, whoever has doubts or objections..pls check out metropolis or awake...the melodies and harmonies with all the heaviness combind is cool! no other words.. those guys are awesome!

Actually, I've listened to a lot of DT's music, so I can't really say that it's a lack of exposure that prevents me from getting into them. I'm also a fan of complex music, and I find chops exciting. Unfortunately, I just don't dig their songs very much. They are monster players - I would never deny that. I once remarked that Petrucci is a monster to a friend of mine and he replied, "True, but he's more of a Frankenstein's monster than a Dracula or Werewolf." Seemed very appropos.

I really prefer Jimi Hendrix, and SRV to DT(since we haven't even addressed the actual topic of this thread since the 1st page).

[TheJeffinator]

I agree with what you said above, Debaser. I wasn't referring to you as not liking technical stuff, and I do agree with what you said about jazz being from the blues, except I have to say one thing - Jazz took the blues and refined it, much like rock musicians like Elvis 'refined' blues and made rock music, so although it did come from blues, it wasn't blues plus this-or-that equals jazz, jazz was/is jazz. I also tend to agree with what you said about Portnoy's lyrics, especially in 6DOIT, but he writes a small portion of the lyrics, and the rest are in my opinion very well done. It's not my right to choose what you listen to, and I respect your taste, but I think we'd all agree that being specific about what you don't like is much better than making broad generalizations (like I said before, 'piss-poor' is one of the most useless phrases to describe anything).

Back to the 'official' topic, I'm not going to say who's better, but I'm able to 'connect' more with SRV than with Hendrix, and I'm not much of a Hendrix guy. I guess that's that.

Rock On,
The Jeffinator

[adityabarve]

what u say is right debaser, and the words Jeffinator has a added are the true ones....DT is huge with their compositions, but as it goes with me is that they are beyond me... i cant "connect" to that music!! well SRV is fun, good and a beaut blues... i dig that!! but i may go against the poll, SRV is bluesy than JIMI!

let me know that i am an ignoramus..and that i ought to know better!