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Thread: Chord/Scale Choice List

  1. #16
    Detroit VidKid's Avatar
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    schematics has commented on a great point how to use certain scales. I’ll add my 2 cents worth for guitarist.
    If you’re going to use a stepwise Super Locrian scale over an altV7, restricting the melodic range to small-within a 6th, it’s difficult to play the whole scale. There’s just not enough time in the measure to play the whole scale. You may want to think in terms of string sets: 1) upper 3 strings, 2) middle strings - 2, 3 and 4th strings, and 3) lower strings - 3, 4, and 6th strings. When you play a certain altered scale, you only need to use 2 or 3 strings of the scale, then try resolving to a goal tone which could be the 5th, 3rd, 9th, 6th and continue on with the next scale in the opposite melodic curve direction from the previous melodic curve.

    On the other hand, altered arpeggios will extend the melodic range (Large- greater than a 10th) more easily in the same amount of time which helps to create variety and interest. I's important to practice both stepwise scale patterns and arpeggios.

    There's also such things as Rhythmic Density. Few notes has a feel of simplicity while high density (Double Time) is more complex and busy sounding. By varing the Rhthmic Density, it adds even more variety and interest while trying to build in intensity towards a Peak Point in your solo which could be the highest note(s) of your solo, sustained Double Time, increased volume or all three at once.

    In-sen Scale
    5 Note Scale, Formula: H -Ma3-W-Mi3 (E F A B D) This scale can be used over both Cma7 or D Dorian/Melodic. The E In-Sen is built off the 3rd of the Cmajor scale and the 2nd of the D Dorian/Melodic. It works well in minor keys due to the 6 and 9th strongly present. I sort of think of this scale as a minor 6/9 arpeggio. It has a unique sound which you hear quite often.

    Digital Patterns
    Just another name for scale patterns. Everybody has their personal memorized patterns. I’m sure you have some phantom. There are tons of pattern books available to help break up stepwise motion for shredding (Double Time). For any given scale play these scale steps. 1)123 234 345… 2)1432 2543 3654…
    There’s also scale patterns groups of several scale notes arranged in a certain order which can used as a “send-off” idea to begin a melodic phrase.
    Scale Patterns using the tonic triad plus the 2nd degree. Just use any of these 4-note groups to start your phrase. By practicing these patterns, it will help start your phrases other than the root.
    1235
    1523
    1532
    2153
    2315
    2531
    3215
    3521
    5321
    5312
    5123

    You can also apply the same idea for the 4th, 6th, and 7th degrees


    VidKid
    Last edited by VidKid; 10-24-2004 at 06:15 PM.

  2. #17
    iBreatheMusic Modthor phantom's Avatar
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    heya,

    since i love this thread i'd like to make a small contribution.. i don't have a lot to offer, but i tabbed out little idea i had over the first progression.

    starts off with arpeggionish d dorian over the dm7, then i chose a flashy wholetonelick over a G7b13 and end with a c lydian run finishing with an cmaj7 arp.
    hope you like it.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by phantom; 10-24-2004 at 05:06 PM.

  3. #18
    Detroit VidKid's Avatar
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    Nice stuff schematics and phantom!!! If I'm not mistaken, the Super Locrian is part Whole Tone and Diminished. That's why it's a great first choice scale with most altered chords.

    I didn't know you could use chords in PT under the solo. To practice chord changes, you could just input chords and generate a simple practice loop? Is that what you do? I mostly use Band In A Box which has the whole band section with different styles.

    VidKid
    Last edited by VidKid; 10-28-2004 at 03:35 AM.

  4. #19
    iBreatheMusic Modthor phantom's Avatar
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    hey vidkid,

    yeah. i use band in a box as well. its easier to set loops and practice over it plus you have drums and all those styles.. biab is a great program!
    i use pt just like a sheat of paper to write down my licks and ideas cause my memory gets worse everyday. to really practice biab is way better.

    for those who don't have pt, i'm trying to attach the bitmap of the file from my previous post..
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by phantom; 10-24-2004 at 06:42 PM.

  5. #20
    In the woodshed rmuscat's Avatar
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    Nice thread/My Pathetic Contribution/Question

    i'll include my little (stupid) contribution to this ... it's only lately that i have been playing around with chords that go beyond triads (i.e. 7ths etc) so i'll stick mostly to normal chords progressions ...

    bluesy thing with 7ths ... initial experimentations!
    | Em7 | Am7 | Em7 | Am7 | B7 | C7 |

    all time favourite (pretty common progression)
    | Em | C | G | D |

    another all time favourite (from Comfortably Numb)
    | Bm | A | G | F#m Em | Bm |

    and the good old riff
    | Am | G | F G | Am |

    i've got others which go beyond triads ... but i still have to figure out their name coz i usually work out progressions by ear and analyse them to pull out the chords,

    that doesn't make my life easy.

    sven i really like that whole tone thing!!! those altered chords kinda break the restriction of making the accidentals sound "bad". **i think at least**

    i have to harmonize the wholetone scale one of these days and see what comes out
    i know it's written somewhere i want to do it myself though

    btw can someone let me know what you mean by alt? Is it some chord notation i never met it? if yes what's the formula plz..
    Edwin Land: Creativity is the sudden cessation of stupidity.

  6. #21
    iBreatheMusic Modthor phantom's Avatar
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    i have to harmonize the wholetone scale one of these days and see what comes out
    i won't tell you the answer, but just try it quickly, take a deep "think" and you'll realize something funny. don't wait for one of those days - do it now, it won't take to much time... you know its symmetrical, don't you?

    and yeees , i love the wholetone scale as well.

    *singing* "its just a whoooooletoone to hell.."

    btw can someone let me know what you mean by alt? Is it some chord notation i never met it? if yes what's the formula plz..
    alt means altered. that is, if the 9, 11, or 13 of a dominant chord are sharpened or flattened - what you get is altered tension since those notes are not diatonic anymore. the resolution from a Valt. chord back to the I is a bigger relief than just V - I.
    so if you read Valt. somewhere, just pick your favorite altered chord.
    b9
    #9
    #11
    b13

    b9/#11
    #9/#11

    9/b13
    b9/13
    #9/13
    b9/b13
    #9/b13

    b9/11/b13
    #9/11/b13
    b9/11/13
    #9/11/13
    9/11/b13
    9/#11/13
    9/#11/b13

    i hope i didn't forget one of them.. there are a cool and typical voicings for a few of those altered chords. yóu know the 7/#9 (the hendrix chord)? if you barre your pinky on the the b and e string you'll get a #9/b13 chord for instance.

  7. #22
    In the woodshed rmuscat's Avatar
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    thanks!

    thanks for the alt thing! makes sense now ... obviously they all need trying out now.

    and i worked the wholetone out

    cool
    Edwin Land: Creativity is the sudden cessation of stupidity.

  8. #23
    Detroit VidKid's Avatar
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    phantom, I think you covered all the altered chords except D-molished.
    Some muscians like to use the symbols b5 and #5 instead of #11 and b13.

    Here's a thought for ya. The whole tone scale is really just a pattern on the tritone scale. Same goes for a dim scale and arp.

    I've got another set of progressions to analyze if you want 'em - Fusion types.

    VidKid
    Last edited by VidKid; 10-28-2004 at 03:43 AM.

  9. #24
    In the woodshed rmuscat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VidKid
    I've got another set of progressions to analyze if you want 'em - Fusion types.
    hell! please! if you feel like sharing why not! i love fusion!


    big thanks man!
    Edwin Land: Creativity is the sudden cessation of stupidity.

  10. #25
    iBreatheMusic Modthor phantom's Avatar
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    let them fusion progs free!!! *applause*

    about:
    The whole tone scale is really just a pattern on the tritone scale. Same goes for a dim scale and arp.
    do you mean altered scale by tritone scale? or is it a differnt one? i also see the wholetone scale as a equaly divided octave giving you a 6 notescale and augmented chords all over the place (infact wholetone steps apart).

  11. #26
    Detroit VidKid's Avatar
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    yea, start with the basic tritone scale and you should see a link to the WT & dim. you'll think of these 3 scales in a different way once you workout the connection.

    ok, i'll work on another list. i was sort of waiting for other members to post another prog list in another musical direction. if nothing happens, i'll post something interesting and hopefully a step more challenging/progressive.

    VidKid
    Last edited by VidKid; 10-30-2004 at 01:55 AM.

  12. #27
    fan of the G string curiousgeorge's Avatar
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    Wow, you guys seem to be getting into some pretty advanced theory! VidKid, hows about an article for the theory challenged (Me!). You seem to know a lot about theory and an article would be very much appreciated by the community. I have Guni's theory articles printed out, should I start there first? I have the basics down like how chords are built from scales, how the modes are formed etc etc... I've been playing for about 12 years but I've been neglectful of theory for fear of a massive brain aneurism. When you look at the possiblilities they are absolutely immense and it boggles my mind how guys like Satch, Vai, Scofield etc... can just play and forget the massive amount of information gleaned over years of intense study. Do they take Brain Viagra or something? One more thing...I can understand Guni's articles except for the notes are not tabbed out and are in standard notation. I can figure out pretty much what the notes are but how do you know what fret to play on? Lead me into virtuosity...

  13. #28
    Detroit VidKid's Avatar
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    i think taking Brain Viagra would be easier.

    learning theory is much easier done from a theory or harmony book. i personally have not looked a Guni's articles, but i'm sure they're good. if you find such information useful then purchase a basic music theory book and start looking through it. you may not be able to understand all of it, but at least it's a start. all that information has to be applied to the fingerboard. unfortunatly, most theory books are in standard notation. you'll have to eventually learn your notes on the fingerboard to apply anything. find a fngerboard chart on the net and start finding the notes in Guni's article.

    some basic guitar theory/scale/arp books:
    Don Lartarski-The Progressive Guitarist series
    Fred Sokolow-The Complete Jazz Guitar
    Alfred has a 4 book Jazz series which are good
    Howard Roberts-The Praxis System is pretty good
    Berklee Series by Leavitt-A Modern Method for Guitar are really good especially Vol III(Adv.)
    A good Jazz Theory book is by Mark Levine-The Jazz Theory Book
    Jazz Improvisation:The Goal Note Method by Shelton Berg
    Robert Ottman-Elementary Harmony

    There's many others not mentioned here in this list.
    You may not find these books at your local music store, so find them on the net and order them.

    a qualified teacher will help you through these books and teach you basic theory, chords and improv. just trying to learn through TAB will only get you so far IMHO. you eventually have to know what you are doing to play like Vai and Satch. maybe enroll in basic harmony and ear traing courses at your local community college to decide if want to major in music, then move on to a 4 year university program.

    I hope this helps,
    VidKid
    Last edited by VidKid; 10-31-2004 at 12:53 AM.

  14. #29
    fan of the G string curiousgeorge's Avatar
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    VidKid, thanks a lot for the info.Well, Satch and Vai are huge influences to me and I would revel in accumulating that kind of theory knowledge. I think that learning all I can about jazz will certainly help me with this goal. I guess the best places to go here in Ontario Canada would be Humber College or York University. They both have outstanding reputations for their guitar programs. There are a couple of things holding me back however: 1.I am weary of going to school for guitar even though I am quite talented at it and playing music for a living is my ultimate dream. I just don't want to put myself in the situation of living in a van down by the river( Chris Farley reference) as a literally starving artist. Do you know what I mean? Another part of me wants to just jump in and do it! 2. I am currently paying off about $15000 from student loans accumulated from college by working at a local factory which pays a pretty high hourly wage. I don't want to have to wait till I'm too old to fulfill this dream if I choose to take the plunge.(I'm 27 now). Anybody else here wish they had a better, more musically oriented job? Argh...
    Happy Devil's Night Hope your cars don't get egged by high school kids!

  15. #30
    In the woodshed rmuscat's Avatar
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    more...

    guys/girls ...

    here is another two sets ... these are two progressions i wrote for my band for a project we're working on.

    We're doing an instrumental set for a christmas activity. Enjoy the progressions, hope they are useful. These are by far the fastest songs i wrong, it didn't take me more then 15m of the second one. The first took a bit more thinking but still. Good to know some theory when you need to do stuff "on commission" kinda basis.

    I copied and pasted my parts from the file i'm sending to them now so don't say anything to anyone just in case LOL

    Appeggiate through these, slow tempo,
    | Asus2 | Esus4 | x4
    | Bsus2 F#sus4 | D E | x2
    | F#m | F#m7 | D | Dmaj7 | x2
    | F#m | Dmaj7 | C#m7 D |
    | C#m7 D | C#m7 D | F#m7 |

    and These are based on a funkier groove.

    | C(add9) | Am | x4
    | Dm | F | G | G |
    | Am G | D | x3 | Am G | C |
    | Am G | C | D | E |
    | F | Am | x4
    | G | G |
    | Am G | D | x3 | Am G | C |

    hope someone finds them useful
    Edwin Land: Creativity is the sudden cessation of stupidity.

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