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Thread: Strictly Outside

  1. #1
    JazzNerd gersdal's Avatar
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    Strictly Outside

    For a strictly outside I've recorded a jazz blues backing (in G-major). The changes is in general:

    | G7 | C7 | G7 | G7 | C7 | C#dim7 | G7 Am7 | Bm7 Bbm7 |
    | Am7 | D9 | G7 E7 | A7 D7 |

    However, I use a few extensions and substitutions. You should really not worry to much about extensions and substitutions in improvising, except from being aware of that I use +9 extension for the E7 and the D7 in the turnaround. An example of what you will hear on the comping is:

    | G13 // G7+5 | C7 // F#7 | G13 | G#13 / G13 G7+5 | C9 | C#dim7 |
    | G7 Am7 | Bm7 Bbm7 | Am7 | D9-5 | G7 E7+9 | A13 D7+9 |

    Although, bear in mind that the comping (and extensions and substitutions) is impovised on the spot.

    Playing outside was discussed in: http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/...ead.php?t=8258. This thread should cover the theoretical areas and "how to" part.

    This take is recorded with my friends "Dirty Harry" on bass and "Rockin' Rolf" on piano. I'm comping on the guitar. The improvisation on the demonstration is played on a piano. Playing outside is a challange, and I did not find my own examples sufficient for demonstration. I'll post later.

    I also hope that this encurages more keybord players to participate in stricktly threads.

    Analyzing the improv a little would indicate that "Rolf" is using most of the outside techniques as described in the thread mentioned above.

    A similar great jazzy blues, including some outside playing, is recorded by SeattleRuss. You'll find this in http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/...3&postcount=10 .

    SeattleRuss' analysis of his playing is found here http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/...9&postcount=14

    I guess this is a rather hard strictly, but I still hope that you all have a go at it.

    Enjoy.
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    Last edited by gersdal; 10-11-2005 at 10:49 PM.

  2. #2
    iBreathe Admin Clive's Avatar
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    Nice one!

  3. #3
    Modbod UKRuss's Avatar
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    Great stuff Gers!

    Thats some nice playing with Rolf and Harry.

    As you know, I find this stuff hard to get my head around but I have to keep my 100% stricklie record up and post summat once I've got it together

    Cheers, R

  4. #4
    JazzNerd gersdal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKRuss
    As you know, I find this stuff hard to get my head around but I have to keep my 100% stricklie record up and post summat once I've got it together
    Great. I'm sure you'll do a good one.

    PS
    For the 100%, I still think you have to do the Strickly beer bottle blues .

  5. #5
    Registered User ashc's Avatar
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    I think I can get a lot out of this just by using the track to follow the changes e.g. by arpeggiating. I think thats going to be a good exercise for me. To get to the point of playing a solo inside might take me a very long while, to get to the point of playing outside might take 10 years..!

    I might try some piano as well with it, but theres no way I can do the kind of stuff Rolf was doing..

    Lets hear the jazz guys! - I'll be posting after some considerable delay

  6. #6
    Modbod UKRuss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gersdal
    For the 100%, I still think you have to do the Strickly beer bottle blues .

    errrrk

    Caught red handed!! Yes indeed...

    Oh yes! A couple of Poparad/Schematics takes would be fine!

  7. #7
    JazzNerd gersdal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashc
    I think I can get a lot out of this just by using the track to follow the changes e.g. by arpeggiating. I think thats going to be a good exercise for me. To get to the point of playing a solo inside might take me a very long while, to get to the point of playing outside might take 10 years..!
    A good start would be using the Bebop scale and filling in with some arpeggios. Looking forward to your go at it.

  8. #8
    Registered User ashc's Avatar
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    Bebop scale or scales...? Isn't there five or six of those, I guess the appropriate dominant one can be used a lot here....but I would need to get that under the fingers and into the brain - I have some good instructional material on this stuff but I would need some major time to tackle that.

    So, this is beyond me at the moment but I'm going to try out at least some basics... sometimes an outrageous challenge can produce unexpected benefits.

  9. #9
    Modbod UKRuss's Avatar
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    Jazz Noob

    Right. I'm reeeeally hangin my *** out here and I want critique left right and centre. There are some really great Jazzers here and very knowledgeable players so before you listen to me when i say, my take is not in anyway meant to insult Jazz.

    Similarly, anything I say on the subject of my attempt is bourne out of total ignorance of Jazz and outside playing really.

    I have read some things and I listen to Grant Green and Wes Montgomery regularly on my MP3, but I have to say I just like listening to them I don't really try to analyse what they do. So my attempt I suppose is a Fakers attempt at trying to emulate what I believe Jazz and some outside stuff should sound like withoutb any knowledge or experience in the matter other than I can already play the guitar a bit of course.

    Why am I doing this?

    Well, I am gonna attempt between now and next time I post to learn something about the stuff you guys talk about subs and inversions and the kind of scales we dont' use in rock playing and then use it to practice and improve and understand and then finally post something hopefully a bit better and so on.

    Right, about what I did.

    I guess it's Gmin pent slipped and slided up or down a semitone now and then for the outside effect. I have no idea why this works but it seems to be a vaguely acceptable outside experience...

    Now this is where you guys tell me it isn't at all because...

    Anyway as always, Enjoy!... if you can
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  10. #10
    Registered User Dan_Bostrom's Avatar
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    Backstage in some city at the school´s concert the following takes place.

    The Announcer, whispering: - Come on, Dan! You´re next.


    Dan, sweating and nervous: - Me? Now?


    - Yes, now... And remember to play OUTSIDE


    - Uh... Outside? Whattayamean outside? The stage is inside the building...


    - Play outside the scales sometimes when yoe are improvising.


    - Ok, I´ll give it a try...



    And here is Dan Bostrom, playing the song "Strictly Outside"!


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  11. #11
    Registered User Dan_Bostrom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKRuss
    Right. I'm reeeeally hangin my *** out here

    //...snip...//


    Why am I doing this?

    I guess it's Gmin pent slipped and slided up or down a semitone now and then for the outside effect. I have no idea why this works but it seems to be a vaguely acceptable outside experience...

    Now this is where you guys tell me it isn't at all because...

    Anyway as always, Enjoy!... if you can
    Well done, UKRuss!
    I felt about the same way as you, asking myself why I´m doing this (maybe some hidden death wish?).

    I thought your take was great, and I could hear that you went up and down a semitone. I guess we just have to play, play, play and play to get it where we want it...

    Best,
    Dan Bostrom

  12. #12
    JazzNerd gersdal's Avatar
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    That's really great playing Russ and Dan. Real jazzy tone and lots of nice outside playing elements. Thanks !!!

  13. #13
    Modbod UKRuss's Avatar
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    Cheers Gerhard, wow I'm glad you two liked it.

    Another dude I'd love to hear have a go is Lars (Santuzzo) he plays some mean Jazz, but lacks the recording capabilities...shame.

    Loved your take and what you did with some of your rhythms and stuff Dan B, great fun! Nice outside stuff too and thanks for your kind comments on mine.

  14. #14
    Registered Geek Stratosaurus's Avatar
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    Russ & Dan: Your clips remind me of the little Jazz thing that is played during the ending credits of Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood. I think it's just the same concept, or maybe you ripped off poor Mr. Rogers. I dunno.

    Anyway, I really like both clips. It's probably better than I can do, as I've never attempted to play Jazz before. I might get my mic & amp ready and see what I can do.
    Home is where you hang your guitar.

  15. #15
    Registered User Dan_Bostrom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratosaurus
    Russ & Dan: Your clips remind me of the little Jazz thing that is played during the ending credits of Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood. I think it's just the same concept, or maybe you ripped off poor Mr. Rogers. I dunno.

    Anyway, I really like both clips. It's probably better than I can do, as I've never attempted to play Jazz before. I might get my mic & amp ready and see what I can do.
    I never went to Mr Rogers Neighborhood. It wasn´t me. I had nothing to do with it. I just drove the car. The other guys shot. They forced me to drive, they kidnapped me. They threatened to kill my retarded cousin. I have nothing against Kenny Rogers, I just don´t like Country & Western...



    Seriously, I have no clue who or what Mr Rogers Neighborhood is...
    But thanks for the kind words!

    Best wishes,
    Dan B

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