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Thread: Strictly Outside

  1. #31
    Registered User Mateo150's Avatar
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    I'm not too outside but here's what went through my mind, although most wasn't executed well.

    1. sub V7 for the I, so while playing g-pent or mixo, throw in some D7 arp lines or D7b9 or whatever
    2. Amaj 7 arp (minus root), sounds good to me, kinda like 1/2 outside, maybe you can use this as a bridge between real outside playing and inside.
    3. triad thinking, i just put my root along one string and stay diatonic, then throw in the other notes as I slide along. Usually trying to skip strings as much as possible.

    I'd like to honestly hear what goes through your mind as you try to make a little outside passage. I think one thing I imagine a lot when trying to go out there, are big intervals, maybe its just me.
    They call them fingers, but I never see them fing.

  2. #32
    Registered User JohnJumper's Avatar
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    I think that WHEN you place the ouside notes is very important. I think it's more of a timing thing than anything else. You want to try and hit the inside notes on the strong beats and the outside notes on off or syncopated beats. You also want to be heading toward an inside note - like resolving to a tone in the key... At least that is the way I think when I play. It is correct to say to much is very noticable and annoying. The outside notes are more of an accent or an ornimentation that place some tension in the solo and lead the listener to want the resolution (inside) notes more.

  3. #33
    Modally Challenged!!!! mattblack850's Avatar
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    OK, not the best one, but more a conglomoration of ideas from other takes, I have some other ideas which I will end up forming into another take.
    Again, any hints etc greatly recieved. It's not something I ever use in my playing, so as I said before it just sounded a half tone out at first, but I am slowly coming around and hearing it a bit better!!!
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  4. #34
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    Here's my take. A way to start to go outside in my opinion is by using rhythmic patterns or harmonic "side-stepping" of a pattern by sliding in an out a half step. This way the listener has a reference point.
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  5. #35
    Modbod UKRuss's Avatar
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    Nice takes Neil/Schematics.

    Neil, i like the chord based elements alot.

    Schematics I liked the Shredjazz parts Great demonstration of the semitone slipping idea for some outsidery.

  6. #36
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    Great strictly-idea.

    I'm gonna listen to as many as possible before it's time to sleep.

    Now playing: UKRuss' take... sounds very... professional. I thought about the Frasier theme after listening to a minute or so. The backing track, especially the bass, deserves credit too. Anyhow, there are some great guitar melody lines going on in this song. Stylish ending.

    Next: JohnJumper's recording. Nice tone. Very solo-style. Melodic and pleasent listening. Wonderful bends. I see the song title is "I wish I could play jazz" - well, I think I hear a few jazz references here and there. Maybe it leans more towards the blues overall (now, the backing got blues influences too?), but there is for sure jazzy moments in this one. Another one with a nice ending.

    Now, Mateo's take. I like the playful beginning. Sounds improvisational, and it's got character. What's going on around 1 minute is great. Nice hammer-on's just before 1min30sec. This playing inspires me - quite original.

    And then; Jazzbluething (who's the author??). Soulful playing. Around 1:20 - GREAT. Funky rhythms. I like the mixed style. Jazz, blues funk, and a little bit of rock mixed together. The result is good.

    Schematics' outside next. Blues-style intro. Repeated and variated theme. OK. Improvisational sound, I like it. Also playful, just like Mateo's take. Around 1:25 - the artist is going wild. Just great. 1:40 - a little more relaxed. Suits the track. Dynamics are good. 1:55-2:00 playful-ness appears again. 2:15 - guitarist goes mental again. I like it. This was really a diverse recording.

    Dan Bostrom: Jazzy beginning, with a certain low-end tone? Anyway, sounds good. Relaxed playing - which I enjoy. This artist must have been playing this genre before. Reminds me of any real jazz concerto on the television - which got to be a compliment. 1:45 -> good improvising. Impressive.

    Tucker - outside in the rain: Characteristic tone. Effective playing. Several quite high-pitched notes. Works good. Interesting rhythms. Sounds like the guitarist is in his own world in this one - another comment which is meant as a compliment. Another way of describing focused playing. Sudden fade-out, but the playing was very good at any rate.

    Closing words: Excuse me for the low writing standard of these short reviews, but I tried to write the comments on the fly, as I was listening to the music. Thus, I had to focus both on deciding for words quickly, but at the same time finding words that express the opinion I had for the given track. I hope you understand.

    Enough for this time.

  7. #37
    Registered User Dan_Bostrom's Avatar
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    Great feedback!

    Quote Originally Posted by Apple-Joe
    Great strictly-idea.

    Closing words: Excuse me for the low writing standard of these short reviews, but I tried to write the comments on the fly, as I was listening to the music. Thus, I had to focus both on deciding for words quickly, but at the same time finding words that express the opinion I had for the given track. I hope you understand.

    Enough for this time.
    Apple-Joe, you´re just great!
    This was no "low writing standard"...
    You had something positive to say to everyone, and sure did give us each a personal word. You must be a teacher...or a pastor...or someone who works with people... or else you should!

    I think that you have found the true approach towards music´s inner core: to encourage your fellow musicians. Youbreathemusic!

    Best,
    Dan Bostrom

  8. #38
    Modbod UKRuss's Avatar
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    As always, thanks for the kind words A_J

  9. #39
    Modally Challenged!!!! mattblack850's Avatar
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    He obviously didn't like my one!!!


    ONLY JOKING!!!!!!

  10. #40
    Modally Challenged!!!! mattblack850's Avatar
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    I think I got a bit more outside with this one!
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  11. #41
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    Time for some more 'outside listening'. As usual, I'll write comments just as I'm listening so don't expect "stylish" sentences.

    First track, mattblack's "Out, Out Damn side I say": Jazzy intro. Rhythmic playing, great. I like the 'spirit' of the playing. Around 00:45; very good and experimental, or what to say. Sounds like the player is used to this kind of backing tracks. It's like I've listened to this one before. Wait a minute... I'll write on anyway. 1:53 VERY interesting detail, hard to describe what I heard.

    Maybe I messed up and wrote comments on a track I've already commented on. I'll find out soon.

    Next mattblack's "2nd time Outside": A little bluesy beginning. Clear and good guitar tone. 00:38-00:39, great 'spark'. Around and before 1:00 - variations around a basic theme. Interesting. 1:45 - great rhythm. I have to say I can't find anything that I dislike. Around 2:00, experimenting going on, heard a couple of outside sequences which I enjoyed.

    Now let's see if I did mess up, and commented on a track I have already heard.

    EDIT: I was correct. I messed up. "Jazzbluething" was Mateo's track. "Out, Out Damn side I say" was mattblack's track.

    In the original post of comments, I thought "Out, Out Damn side I say" was MATEO's track, and I could not recognize the "Jazzbluething". Now the confusion is cleared up finally. "Out, Out Damn side I say" was mattblack's track, which means the comments I wrote after "Mateo's track next" (or something close to that...) was actually comments on MATTBLACK's first track.

    Now, that's cleared up.
    Last edited by Apple-Joe; 10-30-2005 at 07:11 PM.

  12. #42
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    Well here's my go at it. I'm really starting to believe that the key to playing outside is phrasing. If outside is tension then inside is resolution, and since music is nothing but tension and resolution (normally), then what makes an outside line sound intentional, or conclusive is it's return to tonality. I guess the trick is to fly with reckless abandon while maintaining a safe place to land. Also, there's a thread on here regarding quadratonal arpeggios, which I found immensely enlightening, and also at that threads reccomendation, I've picked up Nicolas Slonimskys Thesaurus of Scales and Melodic Patterns which is awesome. 12 tone spirals feel great to get under the hands. Thanks for having this going, it's great to hear you guys and have the opportunity to exchange ideas on things like this.
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  13. #43
    Wordgirl: Jaded Musician jade_bodhi's Avatar
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    question

    I'm listening to the takes Russ, Dan, and Tucker made with Gersdal's progression. Very interesting takes. All different. I'm interested in this idea of playing "outside." I'm afraid I play "outside" a lot, not knowing what I'm really doing. Somebody said that playing outside is different from playing the wrong notes. One man's ceiling is another man's floor, ckind of thing. But I believe he is right. I find the following recent note very illuminating. What Antiphone writes really makes sense to me, and I'm wondering if what he describes in soloing over a tune with sparse changes is an example of playing "outside." Is it? How does playing outside on Gersdal's arrangement relate to what Antiphones is talking about? Or is he talking about something completely different? Please check him out and let me know. thanks. Ibreathe is great; I know of nowhere else I can ask such esoteric questions.

    http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/...6235#post86235
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  14. #44
    Wordgirl: Jaded Musician jade_bodhi's Avatar
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    fine stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJumper
    This is my weak attempt...I don't know why I am posting this! I am no Jazz Head

    Excellent take. The best parts were when you went outside and it sounded dangerous. The parts where you stayed inside where it was safe were only good, not great. funny how jazz (perhaps other genres,too) are best when they're played in the danger zones. What a previous person said about inside being resolved and outside being tension makes a lot of sense. It's really great to listen to you fine players experimenting with ideas like this and coming up with some very good stuff. Delightful and educational too.

    I'm inspired to take a shot at it, but I don't quite know how to make all the technology work. I attemped to upload an mp3 once but it was too big for the forum's limit.

    Apple-joe had good things to say. I second all his comments.


    JB
    Last edited by jade_bodhi; 12-19-2005 at 04:58 PM.
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  15. #45
    JazzNerd gersdal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bnazzz
    Well here's my go at it.
    Great take bnazzz. Liked your chord soling a lot, and you even got them outside. A little messy at a few places, but that may be due to the mp3 quality. Good stuff.

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