The Difficulty of hearing a note in your mind and producing it via mouth.

[AGreatPair]

For example, say I play the G note on the sixth string and listen to it closely. I can keep that note sound in my mind and reproduce it with my mouth fairly easily.

But this is the tricky part: I have trouble trying to hear intervals above or below that G note on the sixth string (it could be any reference note, really) in my mind. Sometimes, I think I have the correct note in my mind, but then when I try and reproduce it with my mouth, I am off.

I've been practicing this a lot lately. It's just a hands on way to practice ear training.

Basically, I'll close my eyes and play any note on the fretboard. I'll listen to the note closely. And, after the note is done making noise, I'll try and reproduce the note that is an interval up or down or two intervals up or down.

But, so far, I am having a lot of trouble with this. Does anyone hear have this ability? Being able to do it is really just having really good relative pitch.


For anyone who has practiced this in the past and now has this ability, what kind of gains should I see in my playing abilities if I can master this over time?

Also, I didn't mean to bore anyone on yet another one of my "I have a bad ear" topics. So I'd love to also get an open discussions going on in this thread about this importance of using your mind to hear notes, pitches, melodies, songs, etc. And anything else that could be related, like, focus, concentration, relaxation.

[JonR]

Originally Posted by AGreatPair

For example, say I play the G note on the sixth string and listen to it closely. I can keep that note sound in my mind and reproduce it with my mouth fairly easily.

But this is the tricky part: I have trouble trying to hear intervals above or below that G note on the sixth string (it could be any reference note, really) in my mind. Sometimes, I think I have the correct note in my mind, but then when I try and reproduce it with my mouth, I am off.

I've been practicing this a lot lately. It's just a hands on way to practice ear training.

Basically, I'll close my eyes and play any note on the fretboard. I'll listen to the note closely. And, after the note is done making noise, I'll try and reproduce the note that is an interval up or down or two intervals up or down.

But, so far, I am having a lot of trouble with this. Does anyone hear have this ability? Being able to do it is really just having really good relative pitch.


For anyone who has practiced this in the past and now has this ability, what kind of gains should I see in my playing abilities if I can master this over time?

Relative pitch is THE prime musical skill. Keep at it!

Seems like you might be starting difficult tho - trying to sing intervals from a reference note.
Try starting with a chord. Play the chord, let it ring. While it's ringing, sing the root, 3rd and 5th in that order. It's really only a little harder than tuning in to a single note, but gets you used to moving your voice in intervals, as well as getting used to the feel of 3rds and 5ths.
Then see if you can sing all 3 notes without the chord ringing.
Or just play the root and sing 3rd and 5th to that, while it's ringing. (Harmonising with the guitar.)
Once you're OK with root-3rd-5th (and try minors as well), try filling in 2nd and 4th, singing a 1-2-3-4-5 scale, up and down. (Do this with the chord first, to support your voice.)
You have to be comfortable with basic intervals (in various keys) before tackling the bigger ones.

IOW, this is about training your vocal cords as well as your ear. It's two different skills. Commonly, people can hear notes quite well, but can't reproduce them; the ear is not too bad, but the voice needs training.

You can also try singing along with recordings - maybe when no one else is around! (Eg, I do this in the car, to the radio...) Not just copy the vocal (if it's a female vocal, sing an octave down!) but try and harmonise, sing any note that fits the chords you can hear.

With all vocal exercises, make sure you get plenty of air through your vocal cords - relax and open up your throat; give it plenty of volume, but without shouting. (This is why it's easier when no one else is in earshot... )

The better you get at it, the more your whole musical sensibility will improve.

[fingerpikingood]

it sounds like when you sing a note you hear that you're off. i'd do what JonR said about singing. i think your difficulty is simply in getting your voice to do what your mind is thinking. so that would just take some practice.

but you should be able to hear how notes interact. a unison sounds a certain way, reinforcing. all intervals sound a certain way. you don' need to remember individual notes to sing them. just know what the sound you're looking for is and then guess where to sing and then change until it sounds right. your guessing should get more and more spot on.

but ya definitely try and produce harmonies by singing like jonr said. even practice that only with your mind. in your mind you can practice anywhere anytime.

i could be wrong though with what exactly is your problem area, because all i ahd to go on is this post, and i never had this problem. this to me, was the easy part, doing the same but with an instrument was not so easy though. lots of practice had to go in there. brain wise the tasks are similar though so training your voice should workout the same as training with an instrument. as long as you immediately hear that you're off, and immediately hear when you're right.

[studiorat81]

There's a book I bought a few years back that deals with this exact topic. It's called Essential Ear Training for Today's Musician by Steve Prosser, published by Berklee Press. It uses Solfege exercises (Do Re Mi Fa So La Ti Do) to help you learn to identify intervals. Once you teach yourself to match the syllables with the scale degrees, it becomes much, much easier to hear an interval in your head because you aren't just trying to hear a pitch. You can actually visualize in your mind which syllable represents the note you are looking for. Most people think that Solfege is just for classical singers to warm up with, but it's actually a brilliant system of associating pitch with something your brain can visualize, and I can't imagine anyone involved with music that wouldn't benefit in some way from learning the system. I know it's been an amazingly effective tool for me.

[Ludwig]

My dad always said "if you can sing it, you can play it". But I can't sing very good so that didn't help me much.

[Username1]

Perfect pitch is an essential ability in music, but you'll also need relative pitch (the ability to identify intervals, chords, scales, and so on) to be completely independent of instruments when composing or when tabbing or dictating a song by ear, that is, possessing the ability of Mozart or something close to it.

A good program for learning relative pitch is the Earmaster software, and learning solfege singing is an excellent supplement to this program. This website also has a web based relative pitch program: http://www.musictheory.net/trainers/html/id90_en.html

[JonR]

Originally Posted by Username1

Perfect pitch is an essential ability in music

So how come most musicians don't have it, including most successful ones?

I think you mean relative pitch...

[fingerpikingood]

ya, perfect pitch is not necessary. relative pitch is.

we could debate all day on the importance of perfect pitch. (i know me JonR and others already have) but i'm not sure if i'll ever know since i've never experienced it.

although for me, the necessity is in having the inborn ability of differentiation. to have actually trained yourself to name the intervals i find is perhaps less necessary but still very good.

[Username1]

Perfect pitch in the music world is analogous to penis size in the male world, it's the envy of every musician, but no one will admit that it really matters. When people do it have it, others who do not have it tend to say in adoration, "You're blessed!" while the ones who do have it humbly respond, "It's nothing, it really doesn't matter, it's how you use relative pitch."

Perfect pitch (size) doesn't matter, it's the relative pitch that counts. I may not have perfect pitch, but I do have a pretty good tongue, I mean relative pitch to compensate. Many composers have had great tongues throughout the centuries including Wagner, and then you had poor Hendrix who failed music theory in high school.

Perfect pitch is knowing the difference between a 2nd inversion chord and a 2nd inversion G major chord. In writing, dictating, singing, and transposing music with ease and grace, it's a boon to say the least.

Can perfect pitch be learned? I don't know. I am starting to think David Lucas Burge is full of ...., though. If it can't learned as a lot of music teachers profess, it is an exercise in futility if you try to acquire the skill. Hence, time should only be spent developing relative pitch. Music teachers tend to subscribe to innate theories about one's potential, you either have it or you do not. Hard work, different pedagogical methods, and the unlimited potential of man hardly occur to them.