comment on Tom's new article

[Madaxeman]

Just wanted to open the floor on some thoughts I've had when reading the latest article by Tom Hess(especially to the moderators of the site).
I enjoy coming to iBreathe because it really is the best site out there for actually learning music. Most of the articles are geared toward generally helping with a concept or idea. They are written to show relationships between a specific chord and scale, or to expand on a subject such as modes, or how to compse a song, etc...
However, Tom's latest article comes across as an "infomercial" for his own website, and it seems to be strongly self-promoting Tom Hess as 'the one and only instructor that can get you where you need to be'. It is written in a very similar style as the often parodied infomercial where the guy can't perform a certain task "there's GOT to be a better way..." and then the item being sold is shown to miraculously solve the problem.
In this article, the faults are pointed out by Tom to be everything you've been doing (much of what is demonstrated on this site as a concept) and directing you to Tom Hess Productions to be the miracle to make you a better player.
His points are very general and he offers what I percieve to be "bait" to ultimitely lead you to his website.
I don't think it is practical or realistic to think that everyone can afford the ultimate instructor, that learning on your own is bad, and that Tom is the solution to these 11 "mistakes" we all make. I know right from reading Tom's previous articles he would not be a good fit for me as an instructor, regardless of how much training, knowledge, or ability he has.
Here is the 'Mission Statement' of iBreathe:

"iBreatheMusic.com exists for established and aspiring musicians who want honest, quality instruction and a casual point of contact where they can interact and develop their skills with like minded people.
It's aim is to challenge/stretch the borders for learning music over the internet by actively developing online applications and tools."

I think Tom's article contradicts the sites intention by guiding them away from iBreathe as an instruction source, and to his site where he can make money off students. The other articles provide a lesson or concept that can be applied right away, not linked to a teaser clip and then directed to a pay for instruction site.

My main concerns about this particular article are:
1) It too directly self-promotes Tom's pay-for-instruction site
2) It does not offer anything to someone coming to iBreathe to learn as it...
3) Directs them to Tom instead of offering something usefull
4) I can go to any website and pay for instructors, I come to iBreathe to learn and improve in a community of like-minded people
5) Self instruction is the only option for many people, this is bad if you are trying to learn to fly an airplane or build an atomic device, but I think it is OK for learning guitar...

[Schooligo]

Hi Madaxeman,

so you want to open the floor on some thoughts about this article, and even some of the other articles at IBreatheMusic.com, huh?

I guess I'll throw my opinion in the ring,

the reality of many of the articles(in the IBreatheMusic article section) is that because the person writing the article has a "strategy" when it comes to learning a fretted musical instrument ie.guitar/bass, etc

then consequently these article writers will voice their opinion about what they think is the "right as opposed to wrong" way to learn the instrument.

but the articles here at IBreatheMusic are carefully screened(by the powers that be) prior to posting so that they are confirmed to contain educational advice and communicated musical knowledge.

as to the particular article you referenced

I certainly agree that what Tom Hess is saying in the posted article is very general advice,

and he does post a couple links to his website,(so I can certainly understand your concern about his article being an "informercial" ),

the question is whether his frequent links noted in the article "draw the line between helpful examples as opposed to an "informercial"

I personally felt(after reading this article that he was right "on the very border of what I consider an infomercial")

as to the point he is making about being self-taught,

while it is very true that some people don't have the opportunity and access to learn guitar other than learning via the internet and other instructional aids,

I took his comments as "less malicious", and it seemed to me as he was saying that a musician could "advance and progress" much faster learning from a qualified teacher,

I tend to agree with that statement,

while I certainly have empathy for those that don't have access to a qualified teacher(so thank goodness to sites like IBreatheMusic.com and its community)
I think a good quality knowledgeable music instructor will help a musician in vast important ways, that may take a "self-learner" longer to realize, recognize, and apply.

I really appreciate you(Madaxeman) for voicing your opinion and being concerned that the integrity and educational value of IBreatheMusic.com community remains as strong, vital, knowledgeable, etc without having "infomercials"

so thanks for bringing this up, and I hope many IBreatheMembers will comment in this post and give their opinions(which may or may not disagree with mine),

I have just given mine, thanks for reading !

[Carvinite]

Originally Posted by Schooligo

I certainly agree that what Tom Hess is saying in the posted article is very general advice,

and he does post a couple links to his website,(so I can certainly understand your concern about his article being an "informercial" ),

the question is whether his frequent links noted in the article "draw the line between helpful examples as opposed to an "informercial"

I personally felt(after reading this article that he was right "on the very border of what I consider an infomercial")

Couldn't have said it better myself schooligo...

I do have one thing to add to your post though, when you ask "the question is whether his frequent links noted in the article...etc...."

A person that wishes to see those examples has to give an e-mail address, and create an account. So I did, there is a nice little video over sweep picking, I didn't get to hear the audio (I'm at work.) I'm sure it's quality advice, however, it wasn't readily accessible to the readers, and I have since received an e-mail that promises more great information, and says I will get even more if i sign up to be a correspondence student....

While I have no problem with the guy making an honest living on the internet, I feel like this pushes just beyond the boundaries and does veer over into the realm of infomercial, and takes the focus off of the person reading the article, and the complete misson of ibreathe, which is a knowledge based community (not opinion based, which is a totally different argument, because i feel like most of the article is total opinion, especially #11, don't want to go into it because this post is not about criticizing the article.)

I also would like to hear Tom's side of this, I never really saw him on the boards, but he seems really nice. However, for me, it was a guy trying to get a few e-mail address' so he could hopefully recruit people into his correspondent program. The article is blatantly telling people "you can't learn without a teacher", then he decides to throw in "Hey, guess what, I happen to be a teacher" Smells pretty fishy.

[Crossroads]

I really have no idea how the articles are chosen or who decides what's suitable & what's not.

Just to make it clear, because several members have recently seemed to think otherwise - moderators like myself have zero to do with anything like that ... choices and decisions of that kind are made by those who own the website, and as far as I can see most of those articles were put in place several years ago, and are generally perfectly straightforward and very helpful.

But as far as the Tom Hess articles are concerned - I have to agree with MadAxeman ... I also think they are clearly aimed at promoting a teaching business ... like Ryan (Carvinite) I also checked them out by signing up to Tom's website, and I also get occasional emails which I think are really sales advertising for his teaching courses, though the emails are not really "hard-sell" and are only very occasional, so they're not really a problem to me in that sense.

More generally - recently we had quite a lot of discussion about writing more new articles, and also re-arranging the forum with various new sections for such things as Song Analysis, and maybe even a controlled section for Gear Talk etc. Unfortunately it seems those aims & ideas have faded away for no obvious apparent reason.

Ian.

[Schooligo]

My Bad !!!

I should have clicked on the "examples" linked in Tom's article(I will be wiser in the future when responding to threads about such articles)

thanks to Carvinite and Crossroads for pointing out that to access the "Examples" you are required to give personal information/email address

I'm glad Madaxeman brought this concern up,

I think Madaxeman's concern is VERY valid,

while it's clear that anyone reading the article doesn't need to click on the examples to get the intent of the article,

the reality is that we live in an increasingly multimedia world and having video examples is part of that multimedia world and a useful part of learning the instrument

I personally disagree with ANYONE who writes an article, and tries to get personal information/email address, (especially with all the identity theft that is rampant now days)

my experience is that if someone wants to contact Tom to have him provide and likely buy his services they will actively search the internet for his website(irregardless of articles posted here and other places) and contact him to make those arrangements.

but to have DIRECT LINKS to Tom's website with the CLEAR intent to sign up aspiring musicians with personal information/email,

with the RUSE of providing useful examples is misleading and IMHO an INFOMERCIAL.

[Madaxeman]

Originally Posted by Crossroads

I really have no idea how the articles are chosen or who decides what's suitable & what's not.

Just to make it clear, because several members have recently seemed to think otherwise - moderators like myself have zero to do with anything like that ... choices and decisions of that kind are made by those who own the website,

Thanks for this info...I didn't realize moderators weren't involved on these decisions.

Originally Posted by Crossroads

More generally - recently we had quite a lot of discussion about writing more new articles, and also re-arranging the forum with various new sections for such things as Song Analysis, and maybe even a controlled section for Gear Talk etc. Unfortunately it seems those aims & ideas have faded away for no obvious apparent reason.

Ian.

Too bad the new idea's have stalled out.
Gear Talk has pro's and con's, but I am a bit of a gearhead. I have found lately that, for me, simpler is better and guitar through a miked amp with a good pedal (if needed) is the best sound I've come across.

Thanks for the replies!

[Carvinite]

Still makes me uneasy that neither clive or Guni have cared to commennt on how they feel about tom's article...

[metaljustice83]

Clive and Guni have different levels of involvement depending on what is going on in their lives. I tend to think that when they can't be involved they are just letting us hang out at their house

[fingerpikingood]

I didn't read the article, but there are zillions of promises that music can be taught easily, in just minutes a day or whatever, and all these different approaches. Some are certainly better than others yes.

but none of them can magically teach anybody music. It's the exact same kind of thing as working out. yes, exercise machines can get you fit. but you need to work really hard with them for that. and most people just giveup because it's so hard.

also some people find it easier to lose weight than others, and some people don't even need an exercise machine at all, and can still eat whatever they want.

this is not the first such article or commercial or advert or whatever you wanna call it that's that way, making an empty promise, and it certainly won't be the last.

like 90% of all commercials are full of it. for example, you watch a dishwasher soap comemrcial for a given brand. and 6 months later, that same brand is selling yet another type of detergent advertised to do the exact same thing the last one was supposed to do. like "this time we mean it, seriously, your glasses will be sparkling clear".

you can't trust people trying to sell you something. they might be good, they might be right, but you can't take their word for it.

[keithr]

As a new guitarist I have been amazed at how many 'secrets' there are for learning the guitar. I learnt drums and the 'secret' seems to be the same - PRACTICE. Oh, but that isn't a secret!

Keith

[AcidDrink]

I came back to this site after a couple of years of break and I was about to ask if it was now owned by Mr Tom Hess.
I've read his article and most of his articles - and while they offer some valuable advice and undoubtedly Mr Hess is great teacher and musician, they always end up in telling you "hey buddy, you probably wanna be a rock star, but you know what, you can't learn all this **** without a real teacher, who happens to be me" (which is obviously BS there are more self-taught rock stars than we all think).

I registered on Mr Hess site, and was quite impressed by quality of his playing and his approach to the teaching, I even considered taking a lesson from him, but after hearing all that stuff about absolute need for a teacher (which happens to be Mr Hess), I've decided I'll pass, just because I don't like to be told what to do.

[itzfast]

This Tom Hess article is nothing more than a written infomercial which baits you to the video infomercial. I don't think this Tom Hess' article is appropriate for this site and definitely not in keeping with the mission statement. Ironically, I actually logged in tonight to find out if anyone on here has actually benefited from his paid tutorials. I was on youtube earlier tonight and I just happened to come across that teaser video Madaxeman alluded to and I thought perhaps someone here may have purchased the lessons and could give me their opinion on it.

Mod Note -

Itzfast - I edited your post just to change the orginal big bold type. I'm sympathetic to what you say, but I don't want us to ramp up the tension too far by seeming to shout about it in a big typeface.

All the best, Ian.