New metallica album review!! - Page 2

moow · 06-06-2003, 05:23 AM

I kinda understand where you guys are coming from. yes they have released something TO raw. I had the same feelings at the start. but after a few listens you kinda grow past the RAW sound and i can acctully understand them trying something new for their 8th not second not even third but 8th album, i think they can say YES we have made a RAW album with a contempory set list within the album...just adds and continues there story..i think the rawness is a nice statment in some ways , but i LOVE my well produced albums such as deftones , seven dust and other NU metal bands that have alot of money spent on their production. This metallica album is nothing like those , but i understand and respect whey they have done here.

One more thing...some of you guys are saying. "yea they are well of they dont need our money" they are "rich" this and that..

They worked hard for it , and everything that you have listened that came from metallica which has inspired you in any way RIFF beats and phrases wise , saying what some of you guys did is just not fair to them. Sure they have money and they want to continue it that way. they are known as the kings of metal and all bands around the world , it dont matter what style of music you play ,the bands will or would have looked towards metallica in one way or another for musical direction even with this new albumm, it will inspire many people to do more raw ****..Thats fair enough is it not?. but its not worth ripping them of then baging them out , ive downloaded alot of metallicas stuff , but i still go and buy there stuff in the end ,cause i realise that at the end of the day they are worth more than 30 bucks.

Go metallica. peace out.

matrix · 06-06-2003, 01:29 PM

I'm trying to like it.....i just can't get past how bad it sounds. I would like to turn it up and jam, but it sounds like crap!!
the DVD sounds better.....later!

Oceano · 06-06-2003, 01:52 PM

Sure, that there is nothing wrong with it, if you are one of the people that is honest enough to dowload music to see if you like it, and then buy the album/ or not.

However, there are people (like a guy that works with me) that is selling burned CD's at $5 (CAN) each, including case and dowloaded artwork also. I work in a place with about 500 people, and believe me, this guy sells a LOT of cd's at work.

The internet is great, and every independent band is lucky to be able to have their music accessible to millions of people. However, the point is that you want these people to sample your music, and then buy your album, because if everybody that likes your stuff, just download's it instead of buying it, your band will never get out of your Dad's garage.

I have a problem with this whole thing of people being against Metallica's side just because they are rich. This is so stupid.

They earned it, nobody gave it to them on a silver spoon. They made amazing original music, and toured, and toured, and toured.

It takes a lot of hard work, and a sacrifice of a normal personal life, to get to where Metallica got, and they did it on their own, through out many years of building a very big fanbase, without radio or MTV help. To me, they deserve everything they have, and I am not even a big fan, but I have been following their development since Kill em' all, and have great respect for what they achieved.

moow · 06-06-2003, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Oceano
Sure, that there is nothing wrong with it, if you are one of the people that is honest enough to dowload music to see if you like it, and then buy the album/ or not.

However, there are people (like a guy that works with me) that is selling burned CD's at $5 (CAN) each, including case and dowloaded artwork also. I work in a place with about 500 people, and believe me, this guy sells a LOT of cd's at work.

The internet is great, and every independent band is lucky to be able to have their music accessible to millions of people. However, the point is that you want these people to sample your music, and then buy your album, because if everybody that likes your stuff, just download's it instead of buying it, your band will never get out of your Dad's garage.

I have a problem with this whole thing of people being against Metallica's side just because they are rich. This is so stupid.

They earned it, nobody gave it to them on a silver spoon. They made amazing original music, and toured, and toured, and toured.

It takes a lot of hard work, and a sacrifice of a normal personal life, to get to where Metallica got, and they did it on their own, through out many years of building a very big fanbase, without radio or MTV help. To me, they deserve everything they have, and I am not even a big fan, but I have been following their development since Kill em' all, and have great respect for what they achieved.

Well said dude.. could not agree more...

***EricV*** · 06-06-2003, 05:09 PM

That part about selling copies of an album... man, THAT is SO messed up. That definitely is not right.
I am quite aware of this... you only need to check out Ebay to see people sell bootlegs ( i.e. VCD´s of workshops etc. ) for a few bucks etc.
A student of a friend of mine bought a VCD of John Petrucci´s "Rock Discipline"... it was a "rip" of the video, put into 5 Real Video-Files. The guy who sold it included a "special bonus"... MP3s of the two Liquid Tension Experiment album.
The whole CD was like... 8 bucks, and obviously the guy sold a bunch of those.
That IS messed up, even worse than just downloading stuff for yourself...

Eric

Wizbit81 · 06-06-2003, 08:09 PM

Regarding file sharing:
1. It does affect cd sales. In big student towns record sales are down since napster and kazaa by 30% or more, (yes I have seen figures).
2. I get lars' point. He's not bothered about the money, like you say, he has more then he can ever spend and more coming in all the time. He campaigns for small bands with little money who will lose money and not have the chance to be musicians because of file sharing. He has said this in interviews before, (including about not caring about the money), and I support him. I want to make a living in the music industry and if I got stopped because people were downloading and burning my cds it would make me pretty bitter I must say.
I must admit that I use kazaa myself, but on a try before you buy basis. I download a few tracks by an artist recommended to me, and, if I like them, I buy the cd. I appreciate that others do this too but they have to realise not everybody does. I know someone who downloads whole albums every day and burns to cd for himself or his friends. He has over 300 albums done like this, (ADSL internet connection). Those are the people I have a problem with. Would you live in a house and not expect to pay rent? No, so why should you get access to other people's hard work for free? If bands want to put out tracks to get exposure, fine, but wait and see if they give free download access to all their master recordings when they become known and relatively successful.

Anubis · 06-07-2003, 01:34 AM

Quote:

It does affect cd sales. In big student towns record sales are down since napster and kazaa by 30% or more, (yes I have seen figures).

Wrong.
You can't prove that it is because of file sharing.
You are obviously missing many many things.
Record sales is going up and down from time to time but as soon as the sales goes down the stupid record companies blames file sharing which only proves what a bunch of morons they are.
There are so many other things that affects record sales.
If people are out of work, the price of the CDs and let's not forget that today CDs have competition from so many other things like PC-Games,DVDs,cell phones and many many other things.
This is a pretty new situation but the the record companies are to stupid to understand it.
As soon as the record sales drops they blame file sharing.
I would actually say that file sharing can help record sales.
I buy more CDs today thanks to file sharing.
I have thanks to file sharing discovered many new artists that I would never have discovered without file sharing.
Not everyone is like me but I am sure that I am not alone.
Another important thing with file sharing is that it makes music available to people that can't buy the music.
There are countries where CDs are hard if not impossible to find and also very expensive.
I have met guitar players from some very odd places but thanks to file sharing artists gets their name and music out to more places which i think will only be good for them in the long run.
I am also sure that file sharing will affect how many people that goes to concerts.
I am sure file sharing will help there.
The record companies should stop discussing how to stop file sharing cause that will be pretty impossible instead they should focus on how to sell their music in new ways.
The record companies are stupid and slow.
For example they should a long time ago have made it possible to download music from their sites for a certain amount of money.
Another funny thing regarding this whole subject is that the exact same arguments was used by the record companies when people started to use cassette tapes to give to friends.

Read this article and get some more facts.

http://www.the-inquirer.com/?article=9048

Finally i would like to say that i hope everyone downloads Metallicas new album and don't buy it.
They are today a bunch of idiots that drags their own fans to court.
In the 80's they released a home video with bootlegs filmed illegal by their own fans.
Compare that to the band name Nu-tallica today.
Shame on you Metallica you deserves to be ripped off.

http://www.campchaos.com/cartoons/na...erbad_56k.html

http://www.metallicasucks.com/

Anubis · 06-07-2003, 01:40 AM

And here's some words from another intelligent guy

Why are CDs so expensive? Because the record industry doesn't have a sense of history.
Nobody in office at the big 5 companies (controlling more than 95% of the world market) remembers the previous down periods in record sales (take the late 70's/early 80's for instance).
So they think the current slump can be blamed in downloading even though the slide in CD sales have been long and fairly continuous.
What's the remedy? Keep the prices high.
It doesn't matter that production costs are very low for the average CD and that the record industry actually gets money for every blank CD sold (yes, even the ones you buy to backup your files on). They only see figures and they can't understand the drop in sales because they don't see the large picture.
The singles market today is a loss maker of gigantic proportions. Single are only made to promote full-length phonograms
and the fact that the single is no longer relevant to most people (with downloading being what it is) it is stupid to continue the production on the scale it is now. (In the mid-90's record companies still clung to the idea that the single was of importance and spent a lot of time, effort and money on that part of the market. Many fanciful sales were reported and a growing number of singles went straight to number 1, something that was almost unheard of in previous decades.
The reason? Lower prices.
One Mariah Carey single that went straight to number 1 and sold record quantities over a single week was sold for 49 cents.)
Record companies also fail to understand that music is today competing with a number of other devices that cater to our
attention.
Back in the 80's it was all about the Walkman. Today, it's the cell phone.
Time that used to be spent listening to music is no more because now we can interact with our friends during that time.
Plus there's the internet.
So, why are CD prices "high"? Because record companies are scared stiff. They don't understand that the times have changed
and their strategies haven't. So they try to recoup "losses" by keeping prices high (and even raising them for some markets)
because that's all they know.
"We must never take these words too seriously - words are very important, but if we take them too seriously, we destroy
everything."

matrix · 06-07-2003, 02:04 AM

http://www.campchaos.com/cartoons/mo...otley_56k.html

matrix · 06-07-2003, 02:14 AM

http://www.campchaos.com/cartoons/na...icops_56k.html

Wyll_Watts · 06-07-2003, 04:06 AM

hey there people...
This whole argument is becoming a little tiresome.. but I guess I'll say a few things since I have a big mouth..

I think most of us can agree that the recording industry has its problems, and I think most of us wouldn't mind paying less for CDs.. all that is pretty obvious

Anyone who sets out to rip off someone else.. well that's just wrong. you're lowering yourself to the same level as the labels and managers etc. that rip off the bands. We need to rise above that..

The internet and modern digital music encoding is still a very young medium in the big picture.. many of these problems will iron out themselves in a few years.. Humans are dynamic and have great abilities to adapt, but we don't always like change.. Everyone may be having a fit on all sides of this issue now, but the whole issue will probably seem obsolete as more and more bands and artists create their own sites with audio files to sample and other insights into their music, and as the recording industry creates more ways to download music for (if the current trend continues) fairly reasonable prices..

As far as the "hurting album sales" thing goes.. well, we really need to define what we mean by that.. I think of it this way.. some popular artist releases a single that sells a kabillion copies.. and just one person downloads the single and does not purchase it.. well, that's one album sale lost.. it may be a miniscule amount of money in the big picture.. but that little bit of money is still gone... when you think of this in terms of a small band that maybe only sells a thousand records and many people download the stuff instead of buying it, that loss can quicly become significant.. So while I don't really like the modern recording industry, I don't think it is the burden of proof lies with them.. I think it is up to YOU to prove that file sharing and CD burning is NOT hurting album sales...
but, just like the rest of this, my arguments on this point will probably be obsolete in a few years too.. sooo..
I guess my final point is this.. instead of flaming, and posturing and hateing, set all this stuff to the side for a while.. sit back and play your guitar.. and you know what, if all that hate is still there, express it in some music, write some really angry heavy stuff.. 'cause I think that your playing and the music you write is going to mean alot more to you in the long run than this argument..

Love, Hate, and Music,
Wyll

*metaljustice83* · 06-07-2003, 04:21 AM

I agree, I guess my metallica threads went down the crapper

Wyll_Watts · 06-07-2003, 04:28 AM

hey, don't sweat it man..

you know what I'd think would be some cool to talk about in the context of the new Metallica album.. on the DVD, James and Kirk use several very cool guitars IMO, and each one of them sounds very different to my ears.. which ones do you think sound the best, or at least tickle your fancy? I thought the black gibson explorer with the emgs James used was a monster of an axe.. it kept the bottom end together but still cut through well.. his les paul was cool too, but didn't seem to cut through as well.. I guess this could have something to do with the tunings too since I havn't really analyzed the sounds in that context yet.. out of Kirk's guitars, I thought the old ESP KH sounded the best and was a great match to gibson explorer.. Kirks les paul was cool too but it didn't sound quite as fat to me.. I'd love to hear your insight on this metaljustice..

Peace,
Wyll

matrix · 06-07-2003, 04:49 AM

ESP sounded great, like the old sound! Big and powerful.

I'm not a Gibson fan, I prefer my PRS. Best guitar ever made.

Anubis · 06-07-2003, 10:10 AM

Quote:

some popular artist releases a single that sells a kabillion copies.. and just one person downloads the single and does not purchase it.. well, that's one album sale lost.. it may be a miniscule amount of money in the big picture.. but that little bit of money is still gone... when you think of this in terms of a small band that maybe only sells a thousand records and many people download the stuff instead of buying it, that loss can quicly become significant..

That is totally wrong.
This one person you are talking about might actually be hundreds of thousands that would never have bought the single anyway.
And don't forget that thanks to file sharing many people discovers artists they never have heard of.
That's the case for me.
Thanks to file sharing I have bought CDs I would never have bought otherwise.I wouldn't even have known that those artists existed.
But I also download stuff (a lot actually) that I would never go out and buy but how can that hurt record sales!?!?

Quote:

I think it is up to YOU to prove that file sharing and CD burning is NOT hurting album sales...

How can anyone prove it?
Album sales WILL drop even if file sharing wasn't around.
Today albums have to compete with cell phones, DVDs and many other things.
That wasn't the case before.

06-06-2003, 05:23 AM	#16
moow Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 5	I dont think its all that bad. I kinda understand where you guys are coming from. yes they have released something TO raw. I had the same feelings at the start. but after a few listens you kinda grow past the RAW sound and i can acctully understand them trying something new for their 8th not second not even third but 8th album, i think they can say YES we have made a RAW album with a contempory set list within the album...just adds and continues there story..i think the rawness is a nice statment in some ways , but i LOVE my well produced albums such as deftones , seven dust and other NU metal bands that have alot of money spent on their production. This metallica album is nothing like those , but i understand and respect whey they have done here. One more thing...some of you guys are saying. "yea they are well of they dont need our money" they are "rich" this and that.. They worked hard for it , and everything that you have listened that came from metallica which has inspired you in any way RIFF beats and phrases wise , saying what some of you guys did is just not fair to them. Sure they have money and they want to continue it that way. they are known as the kings of metal and all bands around the world , it dont matter what style of music you play ,the bands will or would have looked towards metallica in one way or another for musical direction even with this new albumm, it will inspire many people to do more raw ****..Thats fair enough is it not?. but its not worth ripping them of then baging them out , ive downloaded alot of metallicas stuff , but i still go and buy there stuff in the end ,cause i realise that at the end of the day they are worth more than 30 bucks. Go metallica. peace out.

06-06-2003, 01:52 PM	#18
Oceano Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 570	Regarding the whole dowloading thing Sure, that there is nothing wrong with it, if you are one of the people that is honest enough to dowload music to see if you like it, and then buy the album/ or not. However, there are people (like a guy that works with me) that is selling burned CD's at $5 (CAN) each, including case and dowloaded artwork also. I work in a place with about 500 people, and believe me, this guy sells a LOT of cd's at work. The internet is great, and every independent band is lucky to be able to have their music accessible to millions of people. However, the point is that you want these people to sample your music, and then buy your album, because if everybody that likes your stuff, just download's it instead of buying it, your band will never get out of your Dad's garage. I have a problem with this whole thing of people being against Metallica's side just because they are rich. This is so stupid. They earned it, nobody gave it to them on a silver spoon. They made amazing original music, and toured, and toured, and toured. It takes a lot of hard work, and a sacrifice of a normal personal life, to get to where Metallica got, and they did it on their own, through out many years of building a very big fanbase, without radio or MTV help. To me, they deserve everything they have, and I am not even a big fan, but I have been following their development since Kill em' all, and have great respect for what they achieved.

06-06-2003, 05:09 PM	#20
*EricV* Ibreathe Music Advisor Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 6,096	That part about selling copies of an album... man, THAT is SO messed up. That definitely is not right. I am quite aware of this... you only need to check out Ebay to see people sell bootlegs ( i.e. VCD´s of workshops etc. ) for a few bucks etc. A student of a friend of mine bought a VCD of John Petrucci´s "Rock Discipline"... it was a "rip" of the video, put into 5 Real Video-Files. The guy who sold it included a "special bonus"... MP3s of the two Liquid Tension Experiment album. The whole CD was like... 8 bucks, and obviously the guy sold a bunch of those. That IS messed up, even worse than just downloading stuff for yourself... Eric __________________ www.ericvandenberg.net "Talking Hands" shop Guitar Magazine Blog

06-07-2003, 02:04 AM	#24
matrix Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Detroit Posts: 5	this is all i have to say about downloading Metallica Music! http://www.campchaos.com/cartoons/mo...otley_56k.html Last edited by matrix; 06-07-2003 at 02:20 AM.

06-07-2003, 02:14 AM	#25
matrix Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Detroit Posts: 5	just one more........... http://www.campchaos.com/cartoons/na...icops_56k.html

06-06-2003, 01:29 PM	#17
matrix Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Detroit Posts: 5	I'm trying to like it.....i just can't get past how bad it sounds. I would like to turn it up and jam, but it sounds like crap!! the DVD sounds better.....later!

06-06-2003, 08:09 PM	#21
Wizbit81 Talker of bollocks Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: England Posts: 112	Regarding file sharing: 1. It does affect cd sales. In big student towns record sales are down since napster and kazaa by 30% or more, (yes I have seen figures). 2. I get lars' point. He's not bothered about the money, like you say, he has more then he can ever spend and more coming in all the time. He campaigns for small bands with little money who will lose money and not have the chance to be musicians because of file sharing. He has said this in interviews before, (including about not caring about the money), and I support him. I want to make a living in the music industry and if I got stopped because people were downloading and burning my cds it would make me pretty bitter I must say. I must admit that I use kazaa myself, but on a try before you buy basis. I download a few tracks by an artist recommended to me, and, if I like them, I buy the cd. I appreciate that others do this too but they have to realise not everybody does. I know someone who downloads whole albums every day and burns to cd for himself or his friends. He has over 300 albums done like this, (ADSL internet connection). Those are the people I have a problem with. Would you live in a house and not expect to pay rent? No, so why should you get access to other people's hard work for free? If bands want to put out tracks to get exposure, fine, but wait and see if they give free download access to all their master recordings when they become known and relatively successful.

06-07-2003, 01:40 AM	#23
Anubis Posting Rights Suspended Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Sundsvall, Sweden Posts: 314	And here's some words from another intelligent guy Why are CDs so expensive? Because the record industry doesn't have a sense of history. Nobody in office at the big 5 companies (controlling more than 95% of the world market) remembers the previous down periods in record sales (take the late 70's/early 80's for instance). So they think the current slump can be blamed in downloading even though the slide in CD sales have been long and fairly continuous. What's the remedy? Keep the prices high. It doesn't matter that production costs are very low for the average CD and that the record industry actually gets money for every blank CD sold (yes, even the ones you buy to backup your files on). They only see figures and they can't understand the drop in sales because they don't see the large picture. The singles market today is a loss maker of gigantic proportions. Single are only made to promote full-length phonograms and the fact that the single is no longer relevant to most people (with downloading being what it is) it is stupid to continue the production on the scale it is now. (In the mid-90's record companies still clung to the idea that the single was of importance and spent a lot of time, effort and money on that part of the market. Many fanciful sales were reported and a growing number of singles went straight to number 1, something that was almost unheard of in previous decades. The reason? Lower prices. One Mariah Carey single that went straight to number 1 and sold record quantities over a single week was sold for 49 cents.) Record companies also fail to understand that music is today competing with a number of other devices that cater to our attention. Back in the 80's it was all about the Walkman. Today, it's the cell phone. Time that used to be spent listening to music is no more because now we can interact with our friends during that time. Plus there's the internet. So, why are CD prices "high"? Because record companies are scared stiff. They don't understand that the times have changed and their strategies haven't. So they try to recoup "losses" by keeping prices high (and even raising them for some markets) because that's all they know. "We must never take these words too seriously - words are very important, but if we take them too seriously, we destroy everything."

06-07-2003, 04:06 AM	#26
Wyll_Watts Acoustic Gunslinger Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 232	hey there people... This whole argument is becoming a little tiresome.. but I guess I'll say a few things since I have a big mouth.. I think most of us can agree that the recording industry has its problems, and I think most of us wouldn't mind paying less for CDs.. all that is pretty obvious Anyone who sets out to rip off someone else.. well that's just wrong. you're lowering yourself to the same level as the labels and managers etc. that rip off the bands. We need to rise above that.. The internet and modern digital music encoding is still a very young medium in the big picture.. many of these problems will iron out themselves in a few years.. Humans are dynamic and have great abilities to adapt, but we don't always like change.. Everyone may be having a fit on all sides of this issue now, but the whole issue will probably seem obsolete as more and more bands and artists create their own sites with audio files to sample and other insights into their music, and as the recording industry creates more ways to download music for (if the current trend continues) fairly reasonable prices.. As far as the "hurting album sales" thing goes.. well, we really need to define what we mean by that.. I think of it this way.. some popular artist releases a single that sells a kabillion copies.. and just one person downloads the single and does not purchase it.. well, that's one album sale lost.. it may be a miniscule amount of money in the big picture.. but that little bit of money is still gone... when you think of this in terms of a small band that maybe only sells a thousand records and many people download the stuff instead of buying it, that loss can quicly become significant.. So while I don't really like the modern recording industry, I don't think it is the burden of proof lies with them.. I think it is up to YOU to prove that file sharing and CD burning is NOT hurting album sales... but, just like the rest of this, my arguments on this point will probably be obsolete in a few years too.. sooo.. I guess my final point is this.. instead of flaming, and posturing and hateing, set all this stuff to the side for a while.. sit back and play your guitar.. and you know what, if all that hate is still there, express it in some music, write some really angry heavy stuff.. 'cause I think that your playing and the music you write is going to mean alot more to you in the long run than this argument.. Love, Hate, and Music, Wyll

06-07-2003, 04:21 AM	#27
metaljustice83 Mod Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Maryland USA Posts: 1,321	I agree, I guess my metallica threads went down the crapper

06-07-2003, 04:28 AM	#28
Wyll_Watts Acoustic Gunslinger Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 232	hey, don't sweat it man.. you know what I'd think would be some cool to talk about in the context of the new Metallica album.. on the DVD, James and Kirk use several very cool guitars IMO, and each one of them sounds very different to my ears.. which ones do you think sound the best, or at least tickle your fancy? I thought the black gibson explorer with the emgs James used was a monster of an axe.. it kept the bottom end together but still cut through well.. his les paul was cool too, but didn't seem to cut through as well.. I guess this could have something to do with the tunings too since I havn't really analyzed the sounds in that context yet.. out of Kirk's guitars, I thought the old ESP KH sounded the best and was a great match to gibson explorer.. Kirks les paul was cool too but it didn't sound quite as fat to me.. I'd love to hear your insight on this metaljustice.. Peace, Wyll

06-07-2003, 04:49 AM	#29
matrix Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Detroit Posts: 5	sounds of guitars ESP sounded great, like the old sound! Big and powerful. I'm not a Gibson fan, I prefer my PRS. Best guitar ever made.

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