AP Tounge Twister

szulc · 08-05-2002, 04:20 AM

This is a tough little lick in the A Minor BeBop Scale.
At least it is tough for me to get this up to speed, so I practice it to force myself to get better! This one forces 'Inside " picking on the third, fourth and fifth note of the second sextuplet.

***EricV*** · 08-05-2002, 11:46 AM

That one is nice, too... what chord / tonality would ya play it over ? Or do you just consider it an exercise ?
Warm regards
Eric

The Bash · 08-05-2002, 12:01 PM

I thought it sounded cool over a "Crushing Day" kinna vamp transposed to A5 to Ab5
Then again I'm weird so...
Cool lick

NP-Frank Zaapa-"one size fits all"

szulc · 08-05-2002, 12:02 PM

A Minor, this is one of those things I use to weasel my way between A harmonic and d dorian via d Blues.
The g#(Ab) is the blue note of D Blues.
You should recognize those hiding in there.
If this continued I might raise c to c# and go for D melodic.

szulc · 08-05-2002, 06:45 PM

I was taught the Minor Be-Bop scale as Aeolian with both a b7 and a 7. I hope I am using the correct terminology. In my way of looking at this it is a combination of A Aeolian and A harmonic.
Another useful way to look at this is Dorian ( from the root as D)with a Blue Note (b5)Added, since dorian fits in nicely with the root form of the Minor Pentatonic, it is easy to visualize.
So D Minor Pentatonic with M2, M6 and b5.
Or A minor Pentatonic with m6, M2 and 7.

jazzIII · 08-07-2002, 02:00 AM

Cool lick! It has that "hornets in the brain" sound when played quickly. Works well over an E5; the 3rd and b3rd (G and Gb) give it a real ying and yang feel (major and minor).

szulc · 08-07-2002, 01:27 PM

Over E it is Phrygian (G) Or Phrygian Dominant (G#) the 5th mode of A harmonic Minor. Some time I like to use it over Dm so it would be like Dorian with added b5.

E Minor Pentatonic with m6 and m2 ( E Phrygian) and M3.

So to wrap this all up, this can be looked at from Am, Dm or Em using the three respective Minor Pentatonics and the appropriate added 6th and 2nd to make the respective mode, then add the G# which is M7 in Am, b5 in Dm and M3 in Em.

Once again I was told this is called the A Minor Bebop Scale because it has 7 and b7.

I actually discovered this on my own, trying to cop Don Byas' Sax Solo on DIzzy Gilespe's original recording of 'BeBop'.
Later I read that it was referred to as the minor 'BeBop' Scale.

Hmmm, I wonder where it got its name?

***EricV*** · 08-07-2002, 01:39 PM

Just looked into my old GIT-material...

Bebop Major Scale: 1-2-3-4-5-b6-6-7
Mode 2 of Bebop Major: 1-2-b3-4-b5-5-6-b7
Mode3: 1-b2-b3-3-4-5-b6-b7
Mode4: 1-2-b3-3-4-5-b6-b7
Mode5: 1-2-b3-3-#4-5-6-7
Mode6: 1-b2-b3-3-#4-#5-6-7
Mode7: 1-2-b3-4-5-b6-b7-7
...

szulc · 08-07-2002, 01:42 PM

Ok, So it is Mode 7 of the Major Be Bop Scale.

***EricV*** · 08-07-2002, 01:57 PM

Yeah... I dunno whether this is commonly referred to as the "Major Bebop", I ain´t got that listed in my notes.
But I guess that´s the one.
Eric

**Guni** · 08-07-2002, 02:47 PM

The Bebop Scale is actually a dominant scale. It was first introduced by Charlie Parker.

So over a G7 chord he would use the G Bebop scale with the notes: g a b c d e f f# g

The advantage of this scale is that when you play it descending in 8th notes starting on the root you play all chord tones of the G7 chord on the strong beats.

Furthermore, he used this scale over an entire II V I progression. The added f# implies a II7 secondary dominant and gives a lydian touch to the I chord.

well, enough of Bebop :-)

If I would need to analyse the lick above I'd just say that you imply a harmonic minor sound by including the major seventh - this is how I hear it.

Guni

szulc · 08-07-2002, 03:02 PM

This is also useful for smoothing out the Roughness of the fourth tone (F)( Commonly referred to as AVOID NOTE) by giving a nice chromatic approach.

08-05-2002, 11:46 AM	#2
*EricV* Ibreathe Music Advisor Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 6,096	That one is nice, too... what chord / tonality would ya play it over ? Or do you just consider it an exercise ? Warm regards Eric __________________ www.ericvandenberg.net "Talking Hands" shop Guitar Magazine Blog

08-05-2002, 12:01 PM	#3
The Bash Central Scrutinizer Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ill Posts: 493	I thought it sounded cool over a "Crushing Day" kinna vamp transposed to A5 to Ab5 Then again I'm weird so... Cool lick NP-Frank Zaapa-"one size fits all" __________________ "All other things being equal, the simplest solution is usually the correct one." William of Occam Last edited by The Bash; 08-05-2002 at 12:06 PM.

08-07-2002, 02:00 AM	#6
jazzIII Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada Posts: 43	Cool lick! It has that "hornets in the brain" sound when played quickly. Works well over an E5; the 3rd and b3rd (G and Gb) give it a real ying and yang feel (major and minor). Last edited by jazzIII; 08-07-2002 at 02:02 AM.

08-07-2002, 01:27 PM	#7
szulc Resident Curmudgeon Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Jackson MS Posts: 2,234	Over E it is Phrygian (G) Or Phrygian Dominant (G#) the 5th mode of A harmonic Minor. Some time I like to use it over Dm so it would be like Dorian with added b5. E Minor Pentatonic with m6 and m2 ( E Phrygian) and M3. So to wrap this all up, this can be looked at from Am, Dm or Em using the three respective Minor Pentatonics and the appropriate added 6th and 2nd to make the respective mode, then add the G# which is M7 in Am, b5 in Dm and M3 in Em. Once again I was told this is called the A Minor Bebop Scale because it has 7 and b7. I actually discovered this on my own, trying to cop Don Byas' Sax Solo on DIzzy Gilespe's original recording of 'BeBop'. Later I read that it was referred to as the minor 'BeBop' Scale. Hmmm, I wonder where it got its name? __________________ "Listen to the Spaces Between the sounds." Szulc's Site Last edited by szulc; 08-07-2002 at 01:40 PM.

08-07-2002, 01:39 PM	#8
*EricV* Ibreathe Music Advisor Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 6,096	Just looked into my old GIT-material... Bebop Major Scale: 1-2-3-4-5-b6-6-7 Mode 2 of Bebop Major: 1-2-b3-4-b5-5-6-b7 Mode3: 1-b2-b3-3-4-5-b6-b7 Mode4: 1-2-b3-3-4-5-b6-b7 Mode5: 1-2-b3-3-#4-5-6-7 Mode6: 1-b2-b3-3-#4-#5-6-7 Mode7: 1-2-b3-4-5-b6-b7-7 ... __________________ www.ericvandenberg.net "Talking Hands" shop Guitar Magazine Blog

08-05-2002, 12:02 PM	#4
szulc Resident Curmudgeon Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Jackson MS Posts: 2,234	A Minor, this is one of those things I use to weasel my way between A harmonic and d dorian via d Blues. The g#(Ab) is the blue note of D Blues. You should recognize those hiding in there. If this continued I might raise c to c# and go for D melodic. __________________ "Listen to the Spaces Between the sounds." Szulc's Site Last edited by szulc; 08-05-2002 at 12:18 PM.

08-05-2002, 06:45 PM	#5
szulc Resident Curmudgeon Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Jackson MS Posts: 2,234	It's Two. Two mints in one!!! I was taught the Minor Be-Bop scale as Aeolian with both a b7 and a 7. I hope I am using the correct terminology. In my way of looking at this it is a combination of A Aeolian and A harmonic. Another useful way to look at this is Dorian ( from the root as D)with a Blue Note (b5)Added, since dorian fits in nicely with the root form of the Minor Pentatonic, it is easy to visualize. So D Minor Pentatonic with M2, M6 and b5. Or A minor Pentatonic with m6, M2 and 7. __________________ "Listen to the Spaces Between the sounds." Szulc's Site Last edited by szulc; 08-05-2002 at 06:51 PM.

08-07-2002, 01:42 PM	#9
szulc Resident Curmudgeon Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Jackson MS Posts: 2,234	Ok, So it is Mode 7 of the Major Be Bop Scale. __________________ "Listen to the Spaces Between the sounds." Szulc's Site

08-07-2002, 01:57 PM	#10
*EricV* Ibreathe Music Advisor Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 6,096	Yeah... I dunno whether this is commonly referred to as the "Major Bebop", I ain´t got that listed in my notes. But I guess that´s the one. Eric __________________ www.ericvandenberg.net "Talking Hands" shop Guitar Magazine Blog

08-07-2002, 02:47 PM	#11
Guni i Breathe ... Admin Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Austria & UK Posts: 1,570	The Bebop Scale is actually a dominant scale. It was first introduced by Charlie Parker. So over a G7 chord he would use the G Bebop scale with the notes: g a b c d e f f# g The advantage of this scale is that when you play it descending in 8th notes starting on the root you play all chord tones of the G7 chord on the strong beats. Furthermore, he used this scale over an entire II V I progression. The added f# implies a II7 secondary dominant and gives a lydian touch to the I chord. well, enough of Bebop :-) If I would need to analyse the lick above I'd just say that you imply a harmonic minor sound by including the major seventh - this is how I hear it. Guni __________________ Please don't email or send me private messages with music related questions as they will be ignored. Rather use the forums for this and I will try my best to take part as much as I can.

08-07-2002, 03:02 PM	#12
szulc Resident Curmudgeon Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Jackson MS Posts: 2,234	This is also useful for smoothing out the Roughness of the fourth tone (F)( Commonly referred to as AVOID NOTE) by giving a nice chromatic approach. __________________ "Listen to the Spaces Between the sounds." Szulc's Site

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