rock vs flamenco technique

[vanhalen]

Hi,

me and my mate were having a discussion yesterday ( actually, we've had this a couple of times), discussing rock and flamenco technique. Now, he says flamenco is much harder to play then rock (which may be true, i don't know) but he also says the guitarist Paco De Lucia has a technique that can't be compared to ANY rock guitarist, basically he says rock guitarists sucks compared to Paco De Lucia (in technique). He also said that there is not one single rock-piece that is harder to play than Mediterrenaen Sundance.

Now, I have to ask you guys that know everything, how much of that is true(if there is any true in it at all)?

[JeffN]

How can the two styles be compared? They are very, very different styles of music, and the technique involved to play thesestyles are also opposite ends of the spectrum.

Sure, it'd be hard to play "Mediterranean Sundace" using 'rock technique', but I doubt that your friend couldn't play a lot of rock songs using flamenco technique. So, in my opinion your friend is right to a certain extent: Rock guitarists sucks compared to Paco De Lucia (in flamenco technique).

[Anubis]

he says rock guitarists sucks compared to Paco De Lucia

If some of my friends said something stupid like that I would **** on him and tell him to go to hell.
Immature people always have this need to compare music and guitar player and say that this sucks and that sucks.
Personally I love to listen to both Paco De Lucia and Joe Satriani.

It is impossible to compare two different styles.
There are rock pieces that are just as hard to play as Mediterranean Sundance but it really doesn't matter.
Enjoy the music you like and shut up and play your guitar is what you should tell you're immature friend.
If he wants to live in a narrow-minded world that's his problem but I feel really sorry for him.

I remember when I grow up there was a lot of music I thought sucked that I wouldn't say the same thing about today.
I remember that I had a friend that listened to synth music and Jean-Michael Jarre. I always told him "how can you listen to that crap" today I realize that Jarres music isn't crap. There's some nice melodies to be found in that music.

[Ricky Garcia]

My dad plays flamenco and I play rock guitar. My dad actually knows Paco and played with him years ago... when I try to play flamenco I play pretty bad... when he tries to play rock it sounds horrible both find it pretty cool though when we do our thing and have our moments of respect for what we do...Comparing styles in a techincal view is a waste of time since a real musician doesnt really care about that anyways.. more about the musicality. A guy like BB King will leave some people speechless as much as Paco would and vise-versa.

A tune like Mediterrenaen Sundance is as hard or as simple to play compared to a tune consisting of a single C note that lasts for 5 min. but for some reason has been accented and played in away that it sounds like a real song and moves the listener.

Or this smily I will use at the end of this email to express my mood. Which way is better writing or using that graphic ... can you tell at all?

[Shred Fan]

No doubt both Rock & Flamenco technique requires a lot of work, but it is simply foolish to compare the two and say one is harder than the other.

I'd like to see Paco try to play Trilogy Suite Op.5 by Yngwie, and on the other hand, I'd like to see Yngwie try play Mediterranean Sundance.

You just can't compare the two styles, they are entirely different. No doubt both require a lot of work to gain proficiency but with something so different from each other, any person trying to assert one over the other is just ignorant.

[DanF]

In an interview with Guitar Player magazine in 1985 John McLaughlin said, "As far as jazz is concerned, there is phrasing and articulation that is possible only with a pick. There are advantages and disadvantages to both styles, but after playing with Paco De Lucia, I'd have to say that flamenco technique is the most superior approach to the guitar. Many classical guitar players will consider that a heretical statement, and I hope I'm not being myopic [...]"

I'm not real big on a lot of his Mahavishnu Orchestra music but John is a phenomenal player (pickstyle mostly, I should point out) and probably one of the most passionate (along with Paco and Santana etc.)

-Dan

[Ricky Garcia]

As far as right hand finger picking techiniques flamenco is the most advanced for sure... no doubts there since it the styles most important part.

[Shaman_Santana]

Forgive me but im not too familier with flamenco technique. I love the music, but 've never seen it performed or have been taught it. Could someone outline the differences between the two playing approaches/techniques?

[EricV]

Originally posted by Ricky Garcia
My dad plays flamenco and I play rock guitar.

Hey, any chance getting your dad to write an article about flamenco-technique for us ? ( j/k )
Actually, did you pick up some things from watching and hearing him play when you were starting to play ?
Rock on !
Eric

NP: Joe Satriani - Not Of This Earth

[sweetious]

This can be a pretty silly conversation who is better David Gilmour, Joe Pass, Yngwie Malmsteen, Frank Zappa, Trey Anastasio or Paco de Lucia or what about the undisputed king of classical Andre Segovia. Which of thier styles of music is the more technically profound, hence making them the more technichally profound player? I hope not to sound arrogant in this but the reason this is a silly argument is that it is ideological in nature, we could all put up our reasons why the music or the player we like is the best, but in the end is that even the question? We like certain music or players for lots more than thier technique, in fact techique in the end seems a small portion of why we like our music. Technique ends up just being a means to an end rather than an end in itself. Paco is phenomonal at what he does but is that the reason we like him. Some of my favorite players I like them for who they are and for the energy they put out when they play, I like them for the end they have achived and the ear that they have for music, when I listen to music for enjoyment very little of that enjoyment is caught up in technique, I am enjoying the mood and the feeling of the music and the personality of the player or players. So besides all of that what is my opinion? I think that flamenco does tend to be more technically demanding on a consistent basis than rock. Much of rock is fairly simple, simple enough to be able to learn how to strum 5 or 6 chords in simple time and then you can play thousands of songs, where as classical and flamenco styles are extremely picky about the exact evenness of string tone, fingerings and position as well as precise tone production. If you ever get the chance to get a movie with Andre Segovia expressing his opinions about the guitar and the music for the guitar he detested even flamenco, he was so picky about the way a guitar was played... he was trying to establish the guitar as a serious classical instrument... so he had to have those views and be very strict in his ideology concerning the guitar, I know this from studying university level classical guitar... it is extremely demanding and many times I would spend a whole hour on just two measures of music to even begin to get them right so that the next day I would only have to work on that little passage of music ten or twenty minutes to bring it closer and let me tell you even after literally twenty hours of working on a thirty two bar piece of music I would still be miles from true classical perfection... so I said I don't even like this music why am I working so hard on something I don't even like just so I could be technically superior to the music that I do like? nahh not for me. Anyways classical and flamenco I believe are techically superior but are they ideologically superior, no way!

First master your instrument, then forget all that @&^% and play! - Charlie Parker

[vanhalen]

Originally posted by JeffN
Sure, it'd be hard to play "Mediterranean Sundace" using 'rock technique', but I doubt that your friend couldn't play a lot of rock songs using flamenco technique. So, in my opinion your friend is right to a certain extent: Rock guitarists sucks compared to Paco De Lucia (in flamenco technique).

That was what I thought.
I don't believe Paco would play very-diffiult rock pieces very well.

Originally posted by JeffN
How can the two styles be compared? They are very, very different styles of music, and the technique involved to play thesestyles are also opposite ends of the spectrum.

I think it's hard to compare, but I also think if you compare two pieces even in different styles, that one must be more difficult than the other to master (even if we don't know which one).

I agree that it doesn't really matter which is the hardest.
The reason I posted this was actually to prove that my friend was wrong.

[Spin 2513]

Interesting posting .

i'm a Di meola fan . Di Meola is an American Guitarist inflenced by Bossa Nova Jazz and Jazz which has spanish roots in it's rhythm, as well as blues and swing influenced Jazz .
It is safe to say "Jazz" as a whole has elements of Spanish roots , as well as blues and Classical , Folk and country. It is a melting pot.

Now as far as ,Paco DeLucia, is concerned . He is the master of Flamenco Picking , with the fingers, and that Marengue sounding Music indiginous to South America . Di Meola , McLaughlin , and Di Lucia , found a common ground with thier styles , when they recorded together.

If you guys are asking the question ,"can Yngwie or Steve Morse play "Flamenco" Marengue Music with the Fingers ?" well , no .
It's a style which takes dedicated practice of finger picking , much like classical .

Could Yngwie , Morse and Paco get together and write some really different sounding music? H- yes.

Now about " Mediterranean Sundance" this was a song Di Meola wrote for the "Elegant Gypsy" studio album , which also has the song "Elegant Gypsy Suite " on it , which i would highly recommend , listening to , Because, it has the whole theme of the "Race with the devil on a Spanish highway" song , with out all the crazy rhythm changes.

Now knowing it was , Di Meola ,who wrote "Mediterranean Sundance", and not Paco Delucia , should tell you something .

Di Meola plays with a pick , so " Mediterranean Sundance" is a Simplified version of what "Flamenco" technique is , and is so popular , because it's one of Di Meola's easier songs , to play.

Di Meola , is not a "Flameco" guitarist , in the true sense, though he is know for having a strong "Spanish Sound "Influence , in some of his music.

McLaughlin is a Jazz guitarist , not a Flamenco guitarist , though , he can play music with a Spanish influence, he is know for his intrest in Mainstream jazz, and his jazz recordings. McLaughlin also uses a Pick.

A rock Guitarist you may want to listen to is Tracy G. He played with Dio, on the outstanding "Strange Highways" album , as well as recorded 8 or 10 solo albums , including a "Spanish Music " album, called "Cat Gut" .

Tracy G's MP3 files

The question now is what does Paco Delucia sound like in the Flamenco context? Here's a link
Paco sound file Scroll down for the Sound file .

[Oceano]

You can't compare apples with oranges.

Now, for the first maybe 10 years of my guitar playing, I was mostly a shred/metal type player. I still like to shred.

I have also studied Flamenco guitar (with a professional and very good player) for about 2 consecutive years. At the time I was very absorved in the Flamenco playing and got realy good at it.

These two styles are so different that you can't compare. They are two very different ways of guitar playing in every way, from technique to tone, sound even the intrument itself is different.

For me, the Flamenco technique was harder to get a grasp on.

[forgottenking2]

I'd say it all depends... I didn't study actual flamenco/spanish guitar but I did have a wide education in classical guitar, and I would say that rock guitar is just as hard what I'll have to admit is that rock/shred guitar is a lot more fun to practice and you have way more freedom on how you do things (check out Eric's 99 ways to pick and you'll see what I'm saying)... so we tend to practice a lot more and we don't "feel" that practice time as much as when we do the sometimes tedious practice that classical/flamenco/celtic/etc guitar requires, so we're there practicing shred licks for 3-6 hours and time seems to fly (at least that's how it was/is with me) but when you do some classical work with the ruler straight technique and strict form, you'll find yourself exhausted after one or two hours of practice... that in my opinion is why sometimes classical guitar forms seem more difficult than some more modern styles.

Just some more rambling

[sean_wong]

I think its like playing balls, which is more difficult? Basketball, volleyball, soccer, bowling? They cannot be compared.