Question regarding a special (un-common?) guitar technique

[Apple-Joe]

I have always wondered how certain guitarists create this sound. Steve Stevens (Billy Idol's guitarist) seems to be a fan of this effect. The sound produced reminds me of a weapon of one or another type that's being fired. I'd say it sounds like a laser gun, or the take-off process for a helicopter. The pitch very often reaches an extremely high level. Another guitarist I've heard performing this sound is Karl Logan of Manowar.

The effect to me sounds quite special. My guess is that they're using an external effect unit, and that the effect is impossible to re-create using a guitar without effects. At least, that what it sounds like.

Anyone who are familiar with this effect as well as the performance of it?

EDIT: It seems like there's actually TWO effects I'm writing about.

One of them appears in, for instance, Manowar's Return Of The Warlord (3:05-3:07 of Karl Logan's solo). Also, in the live version of My Spirit Lives On, you're able to hear it 2:02-2:08.

The other effect you can hear in (the live version) of Michael Jackson's Dirty Diana. Steve Stevens plays guitar on this one. Listen for the last solo, near the end of the song. 4:20-4:35 (is this really played by guitar?)
I actually found another song, Billy Idol's White Wedding, where there are similar sounds. However, it sounded like keyboard sounds, almost "bubbling" sounds.

I know for sure that Kar Logan seldom use effects when playing, so that effect is probably performed without any special effects. When hearing it performed live it sounds like he is bending a note while doing something extra at the same time.

The same cannot be said about the songs in which Steve Steven's perform his trademark sound. I have no clue what is going on there.

Anyone?

[EricV]

Hi there
I am not familiar with the Manowar song, but regarding Steve Stevens. What that is is one of those little toys for kids... little devices that make the sound of a falling bomb, or a helicopter. ( I think Steve is using a toy-raygun for that these days )
He simply held that close to the pickups, and pressed one of the buttons. During the time when he recorded the "Xposed" album with Vince Neil, he had one of them built into his guitar, and a special knob to adjust the speed of the effect was added.
I saw pics of him holding a raygun to his pickups, so thats prolly what he uses today. When I was a kid, I actually had a little black device you could attach to a keychain. It had 3 little orange buttons. One made the sound of a falling bomb, one that of an explosion, one of a helicopter.
Kinda cool. Too bad I wasn´t playing guitar back then.
Hope this helps
Eric

[EricV]

...and listening to "Dirty Diana" again now ( haven´t listened to it in a couple of years, great song though ), it seems as if he had a speed control in place even back then. Cuz at the end, you hear one of those effects speeding up more and more until it culminates in yet another one of those FX sounds.
Great soloing in that song, I always liked Stevens a lot. Whenever he had a chance to shine ( i.e. on that Vince Neil record ) he sure did.
Great timing, great tone, cool licks and lots of whacky sounds
Eric

[skeletron]

I asked about this same effect on another forum. My friend has seen Steve Stevens live a few times, and he always has used an actual toy raygun on stage.

However, on other forums, I have been informed that it is a Lexicon PCM 41 delay setup to invert the actual signal to push it into the higher "laser" effect registers.

I still think he uses the raygun for some of the sounds. Any sort of electronic device will create neat sounds if you place the motor/sound device around the pickup.

[EricV]

Yeah, thats why I said he has been seen with a raygun. Back when he was in the studio with Vince though, he said in an interview that he used one of those keychain-thingies for those effects, and had it installed into his guitar... I guess he did for that album, back when he had just become a Washburn endorser.
It´s very much possible he used the Lexicon for certain parts of it, but some of the sounds are obviously those toygun effects.
Thanks for adding those bits of info !
Eric

[Apple-Joe]

Great, thank you. Now 50 % is cleared up. Next is Karl Logan's sound effect. I might now it already. It certainly sounds like a bend with a whammy-bar dive'n'rise. I'm not positive, however, so I'd like comments about that one.

[EricV]

Any chance you can provide a really short clip of the part you mean ? Please not the whole song because of copyright-issues, but maybe a short, low-fi clip ? I think you´d get an answer rather quickly then
Eric

[skeletron]

PS. Anybody looking to check out a sweet shred album, should definitely check out Vince Neil's "Exposed" album. Steve Stevens plays guitar (maybe bass too?), and his shred licks are probably a 17 on the 11 point scale.

[SkinnyDevil]

Any Steve fan (hell, any serious guitar fan) should check out both Bozzio, Levins, Stevens CDs. Amazing!

Yeah, Steve uses the toy gun, but also uses the Lexicon PCM-41. The 42, while a more versatile unit, doesn't do the ray-gun thing quite as well. You can get all the info from the gear and interview sections on Steve's site:

http://www.stevestevens.net/new/index.htm
welcome

[EricV]

I agree, the X-Posed album is awesome, Stevens really got plenty of room to play solos, and his rhythm work, as usual, rocks big time
Eric

[Wolfgang]

the carl logan effect is a gargle with the whammy bar.
you need a free-floating whammy bar. you play the note, then press down the bar, then release it without accompaining it into its rest position, leave it comin' back violently... Nuno bettencourt used the same effect in 'pornograffitti's solo, steve vai does it a lot... i'll try to describe it better... play a note, then , with your bar pointing to the headstock, give some little hits on the very tip of it, slippin' away from it.

[EricV]

That effect is called "purring cat" by some. I think I covered it in my whammy bar article. Also has been discussed at the forum, and I did post a video of me doing it back then... that one possibly was deleted.
Eric

[Wolfgang]

hey eric,
i always thought that the purring cat was made like the lizard down the throat by satch... at least, that's how i do it =)

[EricV]

nah, the "purring cat" is what you described, hitting the bar while it points at the headstock, then sliding off the bar quickly to give it that shaky, purring sound...
Eric

[Apple-Joe]

Yes, I think you know the sound I was talking about now.

EricV, so there's no chances to download the video of you performing it now? Sounded interesting.